FS Passengers is just so so.

[byoung]

Dan and Staff:

Well, to be honest, FS Pax didn't really knock me through the wall like many other people.

The fact that it had to modify the Flight One ATR aircraft configuration with respect to weight stations doesn't make sense to me. Since I
only did a demo flight, I really couldn't tell if what FS Pax changed had an impact. Although the indicated airspeed on taxi seemed
significently lower than the outside visuals.. Maybe it was me???

I posted the FS Pax warning on the ATR forum to see what the ATR folks think of modifying the ATR A/C config file.

I am going to pass on purchasing it and wait for FS2Crew.

One thing I would change right away, is take some of the functionality off of the pulldown menus and create a panel button set. It was
annoying to have to stop the sim and select the FS Pax options.

Anyway Dan, good job. The passenger, cargo, and fuel loading feature of the program was very well done. But this add-on just isn't for
me.

Take care!

Barry

[AST416]

stop the sim?????

look in FS9 you can click a button and not stop any flying to look at any out of FS9 programs.

I use this all the time with my VA and it works great.

Know your sims before you speak!!!

[byoung]

Thanks for the info.

The point is you still have to divert attention to the menu outside of the basic cockpit. For system related functions like FSUIPC, makes
sense, but not for Add-ons like this. In the Flight One ATR they have the menu pull downs for the pop-up panels, and they have the
buttons, why because it is just a better mechanism and doesn't interup the flight.

I would like to know more about the click a button and not stop flying and look at Active Sky, for example. I would like to see that. Maybe
someone can chime in on that that will take the time to explain what you're referring to.

There is ALWAYS something new, utility, functionality, etc I discover in the sim from time to time. That's what makes FS a great hobby!

FSPAX is still not for me. But thank you anyway.

Thanks for the comments!

Barry



Post Edited ( 08-08-05 06:28 )

[byoung]

Another follow up point...

The reason I don't know about the short cuts to outside programs is because I use WideFS, which is much better than having to swap in
and out of FS.

There are several configurations (these two probably the most common) FS and all add-ons running on one system, or add-ons running
on a networked computer via WideFS / FSUIPC.

There you go!

Good day!

Barry

[byoung]

One final thought and I will get off of my soap box.

FS Pax would have been ideal to run as a seperate utility, instead of tied in to FS directly. If FS Pax is using FSUIPC to gather and set FS data, then why not make it a seperate utility? I can't see any FSP funtion that couldn't be handled as a seperate utility via FSUIPC / WideFS. Maybe I am wrong, and some functionality is easier and makes more sense to be integrated.

That is one of the issues I have with programs like FS Navigator. I would really like to run it remotely, so I don't have to switch back and
forth. Also, you have to load a flight and aircraft, just to create a new flight plan. The program itself is fantastic!

I'm sure Dan wanted FSP to be integrated into FS 2004. And integration has it's advantage. But the disadvantage is you can't off load that
process. Although, FSP is pretty FPS friendly.

I still feel Dan needs to add the push button panels for the functions, especially with the passengers related tasks (serving food and
drinks etc).


Thanks for the time, I wish Dan and all the FSP users all the best!

Barry



Post Edited ( 08-08-05 06:32 )

[pilot3033]

There is nothing in the pulldown menue that cannot be done using a keyboard shortcut, except that is changing company details, or major settings (and
why would you do that mid flight anyway?)

Have you experianced the failures yet? What about the warzone? Those are great things that offer interesting challengers. Try cranked up the failure
rate and buying a rundown plane! Fund stuff.

Also, FS2Crew and FSP are not really similar programs. FS2Crew is a co=pilot simulator, while FSP is mainly about the company.
-Matt

[nem]

FS Pax would have been ideal to run as a seperate utility

And have the PAX sound effects come out of my crappy notebook speakers? No thanks.

Also, you have to load a flight and aircraft, just to create a new flight plan.

Could you elaborate on this? I don't esactly see what you mean.

Although, FSP is pretty FPS friendly.

Good job paraphrasing "has no impact on FPS at all".

Still, having push button panels (or a little menu as a seperate panel) for serving drinks etc would be nice, if only to free up some keyboard
shortcuts. The mini-display could be integrated into this (don't see why it has to be a float window anyway). As long as I'm able to hit a few keys to
do the same those are just nice to haves though.

[DanSteph]

all function as accessable by shortcut and imho one flight is not enough to give any opinion
of FsP, it has so much feature that you can't discovers all of them in one flight.

For me you missed completely what does exactly FsP. Given your report I wonder
if you even ended the flight and got the end of flight report ?
Since you have it on disk go to window start menu click on the "documentation.pdf"
and read only the section "1B - How will FsPassengers modify your way of flying"

It explain that FsP is here to give you the feeling of reponsabilities of your action. In Fs2004
you can do three looping in a 747 and land safely without any penalty, no one care about your action.
With FsP you need to be carrefull and not only land in one piece but also fly in a manner
that your passengers will be satisfied. You can run a company and you will earn money an get other reward only
if you peform nicelly. FsP include ton of other featur as ATC chatter, keyboard input of instrument, flight map etc etc...

Anyway I'm concient that no one fly the same and that some
may be bored to have such feeling of responsabilities.

Dan



Post Edited ( 08-08-05 12:38 )

[clut]

byoung wrote:
I posted the FS Pax warning on the ATR forum to see what the ATR folks think of modifying the ATR A/C config file.

One thing I would change right away, is take some of the functionality off of the pulldown menus and create a panel button set. It was
annoying to have to stop the sim and select the FS Pax options.

Barry

And if the ATR folks give you a response????

Also, you're talking about creating a panel button set for the FsP features. This panel would have be added to each aircrafts config file, so
that each aircraft could display the panel. This is a very untidy solution as there simply isn't room for extra sets on most panels, and
more importantly so, most users don't know how to edit panels to include extra sets.

FsP has keyboard shortcuts for practically all it features, so you don't have to 'stop' flying to get something from a menu, and some of the
shortcuts, like the radio keyboard input (can't remember the name Dan gave it) is FANTASTIC and I just couldn't do with out it now.

Give FsP a bit more of a look. it really is an amazing product.

[nem]

This panel would have be added to each aircrafts config file, so
that each aircraft could display the panel. This is a very untidy solution as there simply isn't room for extra sets on most panels, and
more importantly so, most users don't know how to edit panels to include extra sets.

There's more than one way to integrate new elements into a panel. FSP could have it's own gauge which opens in a new panel window upon keystroke (like
the default GPS for instance does). It's quite easy to write a routine that scans all your panel.cdgs and add a gauge which operates like that.

Wouldn't be a new approach either, Ultimate Traffic adds its TCAS and palm spotter to all aircrafts like this.

[Ryanamur]

Hi Barry,

Well, I'm sorry if you didn't think FsPassengers was that great. I guess it's not for everyone but I do encourage you to give it a few more
flight tests before you make your final decision.

I can understand your reluctance based on the points that you mentionned so I will tackle them one by one.

The taxi speed was a real problem for me. That is a big problem with the Fs2004 visual cues. You get the impression that you are taxing
fairly slow and it turns out that you're going at 40Kts down that taxiway (even without an IAS). Don't forget that on the ground, you need to know your ground speed and not your IAS. To solve this problem, I keep the GPS window open during the taxi. That way I know exactly what my taxi speed is. Of course, you could also cheat and have the pax buckle their seat-belt for the taxi. That way they don't panic if you go too fast.

Now, about the pull down problem. Whether FsP needed to be integrated into FS2004 or not is a philosophical question. I'm pretty sure
that FsPassengers is FSUIPC independant and therefore had to be intergrated into Fs2004 for simplicity purposes. In terms of
functionality, it doesn't change much. In fact, it is more functional this way as you don't have to ALT+TAB in and out of FS2004 to configure your company and fix your aircraft. As was pointed out earlier, all the in-flight actions are available through keyboard shortcuts so that you don't need to stop the flight by accessing the FsPassengers menu. They are found in section 7 of the Documentation (found in
FsPassengers\help) and here they are (Sorry, not cut and paste friendly):

From section 7 of the manual:

Action Key
Call a mayday Ctrl+Shift+M
Play/stop next music Ctrl+Shift+T
Set belt sign on/off Ctrl+Shift+B
Display in-flight report Ctrl+Shift+I
Display passengers list Ctrl+Shift+P
Serve drinks Ctrl+Shift+D
Serve sandwiches Ctrl+Shift+F
Serve hot food Ctrl+Shift+H
Play movie Ctrl+Shift+O
Show/hide the mini report Ctrl+Shift+V
Stop the current announcement SPACE
Switch mini report mode Verbose/Short Ctrl+Shift+C
Inhibit the GPWS flaps warning Ctrl+Shift+1
Inhibit the GPWS gear warning Ctrl+Shift+2
Ask 250kts clearance Ctrl+Shift+3

Input number by keyboard: (see help at bottom)
Input COM frequency with keyboard C
Input NAV frequency with keyboard N
Input VOR course with keyboard J
Input Autopilot heading with keyboard H
Input Autopilot altitude with keyboard A
Input Autopilot speed with keyboard V
Input GPWS decision height with keyboard F
Input transponder code with keyboard K
Input altimeter pressure with keyboard L
Help for number input:
You can enter values listed above with the keyboard. First type the related key (see above), and then type your numbers. For COM and
NAV, type the key twice to access COM2 or NAV2. The copilot will give you a voice confirmation of each command and will reply "set and
check" if the command was successful.

Example with default key:
Type "c12140" to set 121.40 on COM1.
Type "cc11820" to set 118.20 on COM2.
Type "n10910" to set 109.10 on NAV1.
Type "nn10910" to set 109.10 on NAV2.
Type "h090" to set the autopilot heading on 90°.
Type "a035" to set the autopilot altitude to 3500 feet.
Type "v180" to set the autopilot speed to 180.
Type "f050" to set the decision height to 50ft.
Type "k1200" to set transponder to 1200.
Type "l1013" to set the altimeter to 1013 mb.
Type "l2992" to set the altimeter to 29.92 hg.

You have three seconds after each keystroke before the command times out. If you make a mistake just type the command again and re-
enter the numbers.

As you can see from the above inclusion, there really is no need to stop the flight when in an FsP flight. Everything is available from the keyboard. If the default keys are not good for you, you can always redefine them in the Keyboard setup menu found in the FsPassengers toolbar. If you start using the shortcuts, you'll soon find out that your main objection is really not as bad as it once seemed.

Cheers and I hope you'll give FsP another go.

Phil



Post Edited ( 08-08-05 16:49 )

[DBE]

Ryanamur wrote:
Of course, you could also cheat and have the pax buckle their seat-belt for the taxi.

Hey Phil,

You didn't really mean this, did you? I mean, have you ever taxied w/o the seat-belt sign on?

[Ryanamur]

DBE wrote:

Ryanamur wrote:
Of course, you could also cheat and have the pax buckle their seat-belt for the taxi.

Hey Phil,

You didn't really mean this, did you? I mean, have you ever taxied w/o the seat-belt sign on?

Actually, I usually only set my seat-belt sign on right before I hit the runway (fly GA aircraft) but come to think of it, you're right, they should
be on as soon as the aircraft is moving on the ground... thanks!

Phil

[jboweruk]

I only forgot twice, and they hit me with a penalty cos the pax bricked themselves, and didn't like that I forgot the seatbelt sign during
takeoff (takeoff?? Takeoff?? I was only taxiing for crying out loud, I turned it on before I hit the runway.) Don't forget now though.

[Ryanamur]

Well, that penalty doesn't kick in until 35kts Ground Speed. I stay well below that now