PIC 737 and FS Passengers

[brianshepherd]

Hi guys,
My first posting so apologies if some of these have been answered as I did try and research some answers before hand.
Firstly.... Excellent product really enhances the experience especially if you are using the 737 PIC.
So I have a couple of questions as to compatability etc etc.

After completing my flight the overall was horrible although I had 94% customer satisfaction.



Performing dangerous manoeuvres in flight while the passengers don't have their seat belts fastened is criminal. (-400)
Using reverse thrust under 60kts is prohibited and dangerous, it can damage engine. (-300)
Forgetting to set the proper flaps during landing is an extremely dangerous fault and does not show proper piloting skills. (-400)
The landing lights must be activated when entering the runway until 10000 ft, you forgot them. Our company received a fine of $350. (-50)
It is considered bad practice to leave the landing lights turned on when the aircraft is on the parking ramp. (-30)
The strobe lights must be activated when entering the runway, you forgot them. (-50)
It is considered bad practice to leave the strobes turned on when the aircraft is on the parking ramp. (-30)
You forgot to activate the Nav lights in flight. (-50)

I had turned all the lights to correct postion after exiting and entering runway ? The strobe button can be set to ready which would be nav
on and Strobe/Steady for T/O and in flight
Is the Neg G caused by a bank angle preset of 30' when in LNAV on PIC 737 ?
I had 30' flap and Vref enaged 5 miles before T/D so is it expecting full flap ie 40' ?

Thanks once again if anyone has an answer for these

Brian

[ivo]

About the light penalties, I would disable them if I were you. Those were made for the default airplanes and are hard to get them to work
with the 737PIC.

It also says that you perfomed dangerous maneuvers while in flight while passengers don't have their seat belts. Do you have the
seatbelt sign to auto? Or are you controlling it manually?

Reverse thrust on jets should almost never be used under 60 knots as it can damage the engine. However, on turboprops its ok. Some
turboprops use it to back away from the gate. I also recommend you turn this penalty off too.

About the flaps, if you had set 30* flaps, you should be alright. When I set 30* flaps it works fine. If you have a problem with the penalty,
even though you are setting proper flaps, turn it off.

[captain_crunch]

With regards to the flaps penalty, I recall reading somewhere that FSP only requires you to have at least one notch of flaps for take off and
landing so there might be an incompatibility problem with your aircraft here. Have you tried using a different aircraft to test this out?

Of course, you could just turn the penalty off as ivo suggested but it would be interesting to see if there is a problem here first.

[brianshepherd]

Many thanks, I will disable the penalties especailly concerning the lights as I think there are too many options compared to default aircraft
perhaps the next update might contain a 737 PIC configuration ?
I did a second flight and no flap problems but it did mention the G again but no one was thrown around this time
I am assuming that might be the descent rate from ToD to STAR. I think the max was about - 3800 ft per min and as V NAv was engaged
it was pitching to variable to attain correct speed, Maybe a descent using LNAV and V/S would suit better.
Brian

[Drew]

-3800 is a little on the steep side

[Driver8]

Hi Brian.

I've done 4 flights with the PIC737. Only one of those flights i had any unfair penalties for the lights. I really don't know what was different
on that one flight than the others. Might be related to a bounce i had between two taxiways in Dallas or something...

As for the Gs thing - what AP functions do you use? If you're using the FMC now, then make sure you select at least "CLB-1" in the "N1
LIMIT" page in the FMC. I'm seriously considering switching to "CLB-2". The last few flights i've done, i have not used VNAV between
18000 ft and Mach changeover. Instead, i've using VERT SPEED mode to climb, and like 2000 fpm. One of the things i've noticed about
the PIC737 is that when in a VNAV climb, it REALLY wants to climb. Over 4000 fpm is not uncommon for that plane. In fact, with some
wind shifts, it can pull close to 6000 fpm! So, i've been using VNAV (without AP, just for flight director guidance) up to 10000 ft (actually just a bit past, i let VNAV accelerate first).
Then i switch to VERT SPEED. After the Mach changeover point, the plane's climb seems to come to a more believable rate and i can let
VNAV take it again from there to cruise.

As much as that can cause some high climb rates, which can lead to some Gs, a LVL CHANGE descent is much worse with this one.
Yesterday, for instance, i thought i was going to be vectored into the near end of the runway in Memphis, so i did want to descend quick. I
made sure to turn on the seatbelt sign first at least, but needless to say, my passengers DID get frightened when the VSI needle
PEGGED at a 6000 fpm descent! (In a lucky twist though, we had some rough weather on the ground, and since we landed safely
anyway my passengers were relieved and completely forgot about that descent, so i still got 100% satisfaction ). So, i'll be using the
VERT SPEED again for descending in this plane as well.

All that said, there MAY be a limit of some sort you can set in the FMC for climb rate with VNAV or something, but due to the rather lacking
documentation on the plane, i haven't played around with it yet.

So, in short, try using VERT SPEED rather than LVL change or VNAV for climbing or descending above 10000 feet. I've not yet had any
issues with the passengers not liking the LNAV turning, so i don't think that's your problem, odds are it's the vertical navigation causing
your issues. Also, control the seatbelts yourself. I don't usually like my passengers unbuckled under FL180, and i may even keep 'em
seated longer than that if there is a sharp turn coming relatively soon after. From my experience, FSP hasn't had the problem, it's the
plane that seems to be a bit harsh on the passengers if you let the computers do the flying that i can see causing some bad pilot points
to happen.


At least you're better than my FIRST flight with this plane and FS Passengers! On my first flight ever with FS Passengers just a few days
ago, the AP in the PIC737 screwed up. Usually, i hand fly until 18000, then turn it over to the AP. As it was my first FSP flight, i wanted to
make it as smooth as possible, so i decided to use the AP from about 1500' AGL. I was level at something like 6,000, then ATC gave me
instructions to climb to like 14,000. I put in the new altitude, and then hit VNAV as i've done many times before - and the aircraft
responded by pointing the nose squarely at the ground and accelerating!! I quickly switched off the AP, but by the time i got it under
control, the passengers were screaming for their lives, and i was DEEP into an overspeed condition! FORTUNATELY, i managed to pull
it out of the dive before it broke up or anything, but as fast as i was going it HAD to be close!! The flight attendant decided somewhere in
there to start serving drinks, which turned out to be a bit of a mistake because by the time it was all said and done, i heard her cart slam
into the back wall! Boy did i get slapped with some negative points and fines there!! It wasn't unfair on FSP's part though, it was the AP
that did it to me! I had never had anything happen like that before with the PIC737, nor have i again in the 3 flights since!!



Post Edited ( 05-05-06 19:35 )

[brianshepherd]

Many thanks for the advice Driver.
I will need to work on those lights. There is a thread about VNAV and the dive in PIC737 support, Its happened to a few people.
Basically when u engage VNAV it will always try and accelerate to 250kts so maybe if your climbing manually at about 180-200 and u
enagage AP with VNAV it will pitch down violently to obtain 250Kts (Hence screaming passengers) Hopefully Feel Theres next update will
deal with some of the VNAV and LNAV issues.
PS if you can please let me know your light sequence from Start up to Takeoff . Im unsure what wing lights count as ! I am assuming
Strobe is the NAV and should always be in steady until takeoff whentheyre switched to strobe ?

[Driver8]

The sequence i do (which i am pretty sure is the "right way") is as follows:

From cold and dark, as soon as power has been established to the plane, i switch the "NAV" lights to "STEADY" (the "up" position). If it is
night, i'll also turn on the logo light (though it doesn't actually DO anything in the PIC737, just good habit to get into since it DOES actually
control the logo lights in other planes such as the Level-D 767).

Just before i start pushback, with the engines still off, i switch on the Anti-Collision light. If you start the engines at the gate, then turn on
the anti-collision beacon before you start them.

Once the engines are running, i've been pushed back, and have obtained taxi clearance, i'll switch on the Taxi lights.

As i'm about to get onto the Active Runway, as soon as i've been cleared for takeoff (with the parking brake off), i flip the "NAV" lights to the full
down position, which is "STROBE" i believe. I'll also flip on the landing lights (and i do have some questions about how FS Passengers
handles this, most of the time here at my local airport i see the aircraft switch on their landing lights as they're actually beginning their
takeoff run). Taxi lights will be turned off.

At 10,000 ft in the climb, landing lights get turned off. If i have turned on the logo lights, i'll turn them off too (again, doesn't really do
anything on the PIC737 since it's not actually modeled as a separate light externally).

No further changes until descent. During descent, at 10,000 ft again i'll switch on the landing lights and again, if it's night, the logo lights
too.

After the landing roll, as i'm exiting the runway, the landing lights go off, "NAV" goes back to "STEADY", and the taxi lights come on. If it's
night, i might flip on the Turnoff light on the side of the plane that my exiting taxiway will be.

As i'm just about parked, i'll switch off the taxi lights. After the engines are shut off, and with my parking brake set, i'll switch off the anti-
collision beacon.

And finally, if i'm going to shut down the plane completely, i'll turn off the logo and NAV lights just before shutting off APU (or external)
power.

Hope that helps!!


Oh, and as for that dive, i think i had seen that post over there, but at the time i had never had it happen. I'm used to a small descent
being commanded to accelerate, i had never had the "plunge" though. I DEFINITELY reached 250 knots! In fact, i was at about 350
before i had got it back into a climb! While i'm new to FS Passengers, i've done something like 20 or 30 flights with the PIC737, and only
had that happen once.



Post Edited ( 05-07-06 16:02 )