Easy way to churn Profit

[Snake]

One day I was toying around with fsp trying to make some quick cash by purchasing planes and repairing them, then I came across the dc-3 world travel
livery in my fsp it has one for 401k I purchased it and checked the maitnance bill 296k to fix it so I did and it sold for somewhere in the area of
850k which made me a profit around 153k wow. Try doing that for 20 minutes if you want that plane you had your eye on but could not afford. I now have
31 million from 1.2 and I am looking to get an atr or a 737.

[Covoxer]

Ok, so you found a way to get money for nothing... Cool...
And what's the point to play economy mode then?
If you make such things to get any money anytime you want, then earning them is not a challenge anymore.
So it is the same as to play with economy mode off.
Which I would recomend instead for the people who can't stand the temptation to cheat.
And yes, you are a cheater!

I'm serious and I can prove it!
We have all evidences and even your motivation of the crime...
"The suspect is guilty!"

[MobilePCPilot]

Um... I wouldn't be so fast on calling him a cheater.

This what we do in the real world with some of our planes (King Airs).

-Todd Giencke

[Covoxer]

Um... I wouldn't be so fast on calling him a cheater.

What? Do you want me to prove it?

This what we do in the real world with some of our planes (King Airs).

Yes, sure, but in reality you have to by the equipment to be able to make repairs and maitenance for lower cost.
In FsP you can't buy it so it is suposed that you pay someone else for maintenance. And this can not be cheaper than difference in price
of the wrecked and maintained planes on the market!
Do you understand?

Just think about it - what's the difference if you add $30M to your account this way and if you simply hack the database and change it
directly?
What? It takes 20 minutes? No, to hack the base can take you much more, and to use this method you may do it faster if you buy and sell
more expensive planes.
What else? Huh?
There's actually no difference - you do nothing, you do not think, work or invest and you do not even risk anything! Nothing! You just get
any amount of money you want. You may get for 737 like JaKe did, but you may get for a fleet of A380's as well, and you'll not put
adequately more effort to achieve it...

Oh, well, if it's not a cheating, what is cheating then?!

[SaVas]

Here we go again lol.

Granted...buying, repairing, then reselling planes for profit is a bit of a stretch if you do it over and over again, however like real world,
occasionally I have bought a plane that needed repairs, did the maintenance on it, used it for one flight to "test it out" then resold it for
profit (it kind of adds a bit to my virtual company that I buy fix then resell an aircraft, but I dont do it over and over and over again). I do it
about once a month to simulate that area of a small business.

In my scenario, I have to reach a billion bucks, and after 2 and a half months I have about 2.8 million in the bank, which I think is pretty
good considering I started with $10k. Its gonna be a while lol

[Jetflyer]

You should be asking me... I started with £37,000,000 ($60,000,000) and now I have over $1,000,000,000 I have £812,000,000. WOW!

[Covoxer]

Here we go again lol.

But really, not this time...
It is cheat here, and as I say I can prove it.
There are no excuses.

SaVas, you do not cheat the way you say.
You see, you do not rize your cash form $1.2M to $30M at once buing, fixing and selling THE SAME plane over and over again!
The red is a key word here.

Let me explain why trading planes can be a cheat in FsP.
So that, actually, in case of SaVas it is not. But it is in case of Snake.
Why?
There is one small mistake in FsP bying planes model.
The set of propositions to buy, changes only when you make a fligh.
So, if you have found interesting proposition, you can buy it repare, sell and get profit.
So far so good.
But then, you can buy the same proposition again because it is still available!
In reality you would need to wait for new profitable propositions or look for them, thus making some effort proportional to the money you
earn. In FsP, if you have one, you can by it a thousand times in a row! And if you do so, you cheat! You cant buy the plane that is already
sold.
Now if you do it fair, you will not buy the same proposition twice, so even if you'll find some profitable propositions and earn some extra
cash on all of them, you will not be able to continue untill you make a flight. Then there will be a new set of propositions and you may
continue if you find the good one.
You have to wait for good propositions, and wait in FsP means make more flights.
Do you understand the difference?
Do you still think it is not a cheat?

[poden]

This is a tough call, but ultimately its a cheat only if the player doing it thinks its a cheat. After all, everyone pays the money to buy the game.
After that, what you do with it is your business.

[SaVas]

Hmmm a cheat....strong word. I think its more a taking advantage of a loophole.

Not sure if it can be implemented but how about the ability of being able to buy any plane once if you have the finances, then cannot buy
that plane again until you restart the simulator?

[Covoxer]

poden:

its a cheat only if the player doing it thinks its a cheat.

What?
Sorry, but you wrong - this way there are no cheaters at all because any cheater may say that he do think that he cheats!

After all, everyone pays the money to buy the game. After that, what you do with it is your business.

Exactly! You can do whatever yo want, including cheating! It is not prohibited by law, you know.
And if you cheat, you have the right to be called a cheater!

SaVas:

Hmmm a cheat....strong word.

Why don't you like this word?
Is it so offensive or what? It is the way such things are called, as far as I know...
Or how do you like to call it if not cheating?
At least, I do accept it, if someone calls me like this in case he has reason to do this.
It's not a crime to be a cheater, you know. Some guys are even proud of being a cheater.
Cheaters in game are much like hackers in programming.
I can't say that I hate cheaters or something. I'm rather so picky on this question because many people do not understand what is good
and what is bad. And aspecially if it's written in forum... One may think, that if it's written here, and noone says that it's bad to do this, than
it is the way to go... Well, they have their right to do so, but they at least have to be warned that it is what it is - a cheat.
So it looks like I'm the bad guy here, but someone has to be.
Or am I wrong about it?

I think its more a taking advantage of a loophole.

Well, you may take advantage of something and not cheat, and someone else may take the advantage of something else and cheat.
The fact that someone takes advantage of something does not mean anything from this point of view.
So you have to call it with the right name, not like this.

----------------8<-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, it's a pleasure to see how you all try to defend everyone here!
But I wonder, is it possible at all for you to agree that someone cheats, whatever he does?
Like editing database and rising his rank to C23 from the start, making money, false flights e.t.c.
Is there anything you may call a cheat at all?

[SaVas]

First off I enjoy these debates. We all remain level headed...

Secondly what do I define as a cheat in FsP? This is a tough one, but I define a cheat as something that is out of the confines of what you
can legitimately do in FsP because in FsP, you can, if so desired, make all your planes VIP by editing the .ini payload files that you are
entitied to edit. You can start off with a LOT of money or very little. You can have a very high modifier, or a very low one. You can buy, repair,
and sell planes for profit, and occasionally find planes that are cheap and immediately sell them without doing the maintenance for
some profit, because this is something that FsP does not stop you from doing. You can turn off penalties, you can fly while not at your
computer, you can basically do what you want in FsP that FsP allows you, if thats what will make FsP enjoyable to you.

A cheat might be hacking into FsP that most people might have no clue on how to do, and do something that is not coded into FsP, but
then again, thats up to Dan.

What you may never choose to do, someone else may do.

As for not liking the word cheat, I dont mind the word cheat, but I more define the word in context of cheating promotes you and damages
others. In the case of FsP, it is only a cheat IF it is something that benefits you and does something that you would not otherwise do.

And lastly, since you know programming and such, you know as well as I do, that if you know anything about editing the aircraft.cfg file in
certain areas, you can definitely give yourself a number of self imposed cheats that would allow you to get ahead of yourself in FsP.

So with that, good debate again

[Covoxer]

Not sure if it can be implemented but how about the ability of being able to buy any plane once if you have the finances, then
cannot buy that plane again until you restart the simulator?

I would fix it this way.
Keep the list of sold propositions - in simple variant it should be only the number of proposition for every sold plane.
When user buys an aircraft, FsP adds used proposition number to the list.
Next time when user looks for propositions, those that are on the list are simply hidden.
When you make a flight, the list is simply erased.
That's it.
I'm sure that Dan can fix it this or any other way.
But it is not really necessary.
You see, if you want to stay realistic, you will never use this issue anyway, and if you want to cheat, you'll find a lot of other ways to do this.
So....

[Covoxer]

Good, long post!
A lot of comments to make!

First off I enjoy these debates. We all remain level headed...

So do I!

Secondly what do I define as a cheat in FsP? This is a tough one, but I define a cheat as something that is out of the confines of
what you can legitimately do in FsP because in FsP, you can, if so desired, make all your planes VIP by editing the .ini payload files that
you are entitied to edit. You can start off with a LOT of money or very little. You can have a very high modifier, or a very low one. You can
buy, repair, and sell planes for profit, and occasionally find planes that are cheap and immediately sell them without doing the
maintenance for some profit, because this is something that FsP does not stop you from doing. You can turn off penalties, you can fly
while not at your computer, you can basically do what you want in FsP that FsP allows you, if thats what will make FsP enjoyable to you.

So, for example you can fly 100 pax in VIP class in DC-3 and you wouldn't call it a cheat? Since FsP allows you to do this. Right?

A cheat might be hacking into FsP that most people might have no clue on how to do, and do something that is not coded into
FsP, but then again, thats up to Dan.

No!!! Here's where you are badly wrong!
It is hacking not cheating! And it is prohibited by law! Noone has a right to modify the program to make it work any different way.
Cheating does not necessary mean such a heavy artillery. You can brake the rules of the game without braking a law.
So, if you really do think so, then there are no cheaters only hackers because it is one and the same for you.
Right?

In the case of FsP, it is only a cheat IF it is something that benefits you and does something that you would not otherwise do.

Doesn't it mean that the actions described in the first post are a cheat?

And lastly, since you know programming and such, you know as well as I do, that if you know anything about editing the aircraft.cfg
file in certain areas, you can definitely give yourself a number of self imposed cheats that would allow you to get ahead of yourself in FsP.

This is true, and this is the 2nd most popular way to cheat in FsP. After the wrong use of payload editor.
I can also freely edit FsP's database to set anything the way I want. And this is a cheat too.
That's why I do not do this.
And I don't open a new thread called: "Easy way to get C23!", with first message like this:
One day i was playing with FsP database and found that if you open fspiq.db in hex editor, and set the byte at 0x0102 to 0x13, you'll
be immediately promoted to c23!!!

So with that, good debate again

No doubt!




Post Edited ( 02-03-06 17:37 )

[poden]

Covoxer wrote:
And if you cheat, you have the right to be called a cheater!

Obviously, this is a very important topic to you. Yes, you would have the right to call me a cheater. However, it doesn't matter, since nothing I do
with my copy of the game has to affect what you do (unless you LET it affect you, but thats your affair). For my part I don't consider anything I do
cheating. For example, I don't use the automatic record, since then any little glitch in the system can result in an undeserved "crash". To me, this
isn't cheating. I also turn off most penalties, since I consider them fairly unrealistic. None of this, to me, is cheating, and it shouldn't matter to
you. This buy/sell loophole is really no different from turning off penalties or not using automatic reocord. Its just another feature of the software.

So if I want, I can go simulate being an aircraft "wheeler and dealer" by buying/selling aircraft one after another. There are plenty of
"wheeler/dealer" types in the world, so this isn't such a great departure from reality.

Yeah, fine, I can be a "cheater". So what?



Post Edited ( 02-03-06 17:45 )

[Covoxer]

However, it doesn't matter, since nothing I do with my copy of the game has to affect what you do

Well, if you would try to do something that affects me, I suppose it would be a crime not a cheat. Don't you think so?

For example, I don't use the automatic record, since then any little glitch in the system can result in an undeserved "crash". To me,
this isn't cheating. I also turn off most penalties, since I consider them fairly unrealistic. None of this, to me, is cheating, and it shouldn't
matter to you.

None of the mentioned above is a cheat. So you are not a cheater.

This buy/sell loophole is really no different from turning off penalties or not using automatic reocord. Its just another feature of the
software.

No it is not the same! If you do not see the difference, please read my previous posts again.

So if I want, I can go simulate being an aircraft "wheeler and dealer" by buying/selling aircraft one after another. There are plenty of
"wheeler/dealer" types in the world, so this isn't such a great departure from reality.

Please, please plaese - read my posts carefully!
There's no way in reality to by the plane that you have already bought, reapired and sold!!! No way! You buy it, sell it, and have to search for
a next one. You can do it in FsP as well and it will not be a cheat, but due to the loophole you do not need to do anything to get another
profitable plane, you just buy the same one again and again!!! You don't even need to exit from the Company Manager... This is not a
feature of FsP, it is an obvious mistake. And using it the way that Snake describes is a cheat.

Yeah, fine, I can be a "cheater". So what?

Sorry, you are not...
But if someone is, everyone else has right to know about it. That's what, actually.