[closed] FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog !

[KenG]

Airbus_A380 wrote:

Airbus_A380 of course you are

And Ken, 19 Euros (£8 to me) isn't a lot for an upgrade, look at some of the other products on simmarket like the C-130 Captsim does,
they charge £23 or so for an update on that thing!

Matt

On the flip side 19 Euro is $30 USD to me, so it places this upgrade in the expensive category. (50% or greater than the cost of the base software that it supports) As far as Capitan Sim's prices there is a good reason that I do not purchase any Captain Sim products. The good Captain is greedy when it comes to money for upgrades. Take another 1 man company JDT LLC who offered the upgrade for Radar Contact for free.

I purchased FSPassengers (It did not become FSPassengers 2004 until some time latter) in June 2005. I ended up using the software until FSX was released, which equates to about 15 months worth of use. Currently my key to FSPassengers has sat unusable, ok my choice. But, if you do the math it cost me an average of 2 Euro per month to use FSPassengers. Thus for the time that I used FSPassengers I supported Dan at the rate of 2 Euro per month.

When you do to the math the original price of FSPassengers was 31 Euro, so at 19 Euro I would be requesting about a 35% discount as a returning customer. I think that 35% is reasonable expectation (fine do the math to figure out exactly 35%).

Finally, I do not care that this is Dan's only job. He is a business man and he is doing this to make a profit, albeit it meager. I am a consumer and as such I decide where to spend my money. Dan, , just because he is the small business owner, does not have any additional right to more of my money than anyone else. I apperciate his hard work, I am glad that he has chosen to use his talents in producing a product that is enjoyable, and am willing to upgrade to the newest version of his software based on cost versus benefit factor. Too high a cost and I will add Dan to my Captain Sim line of 'good software but prohibitively expensive.'



Post Edited ( 05-18-08 11:05 )

[Harper1984]

KenG wrote:

Airbus_A380 wrote:

Airbus_A380 of course you are

And Ken, 19 Euros (£8 to me) isn't a lot for an upgrade, look at some of the other products on simmarket like the C-130 Captsim does,
they charge £23 or so for an update on that thing!

Matt

On the flip side 19 Euro is $30 USD to me, so it places this upgrade in the expensive category. (50% or greater than the cost of the base
software that it supports) As far as Capitan Sim's prices there is a good reason that I do not purchase any Captain Sim products.
The good Captain is greedy when it comes to money for upgrades. Take another 1 man company JDT LLC who offered the upgrade
for Radar Contact for free.

I purchased FSPassengers (It did not become FSPassengers 2004 until some time latter) in June 2005. I ended up using the software
until FSX was released, which equates to about 15 months worth of use. Currently my key to FSPassengers has sat unusable, ok my
choice. But, if you do the math it cost me an average of 2 Euro per month to use FSPassengers. Thus for the time that I used
FSPassengers I supported Dan at the rate of 2 Euro per month.

When you do to the math the original price of FSPassengers was 31 Euro, so at 19 Euro I would be requesting about a 35% discount as
a returning customer. I think that 35% is reasonable expectation (fine do the math to figure out exactly 35%).

Finally, I do not care that this is Dan's only job. He is a business man and he is doing this to make a profit, albeit it meager. I am a
consumer and as such I decide where to spend my money. Dan, , just because he is the small business owner, does not have any
additional right to more of my money than anyone else. I apperciate his hard work, I am glad that he has chosen to use his talents in
producing a product that is enjoyable, and am willing to upgrade to the newest version of his software based on cost versus benefit
factor. Too high a cost and I will add Dan to my Captain Sim line of 'good software but prohibitively expensive.'

That is some very interesting logic. So do you ask for a pro-rating of everything you buy? Following your logic, if you buy a 2004 chevy car
with a GPS system, and in 2007 you decide to buy a 2007 chevy with a GPS do you also ask for a pro rate on your old care or old GPS
cause you only used it X amount of times? Not sure how much you are familiar with the business world but as a smallbusiness owner
myself, the thought of that is ridiculas. A consumer should only expect to recieve a pro rate on an item when the consumer is turning in
the item to be replaced and the item to be replaced is both recyclable and is guarenteed for a certain time,mileage ect. For instance car
tires, batteries. Why should Dan give anyone a pro rate for upgrading from 2004 to FSX and then upgrading fsp2004 to FSP X when that
is your choice. He has not forced you in anyway to make those changes as well as both fs2004 and fsp2004 are still supported. As a
business man, where do you stop? when fs 2020 and fsp 2020 come out? Any electronic game, or basic product for that matter that is not
recyclable by the manufacture or guarenteed for a set amount of time has a life as long as you decide to use it. That choice is the
consumers and not the sellers. Your choice is to not upgrade or not buy the product because you dont like the price or whatever reason
you decide. If that is your reason then thats fine but funny because im sure you do not go back to best buy or circuit city with a home
theater system thats 3 years old and want them to give you a discount on the next model of home theater system. If you do do that then
you must get laughed at alot

[Airbus_A380]

Wow Ken lots of writing there, what ever happened to pictures?

I'm not a Mod, nor a Tester, nor a Sales Manager. So I have no idea about the pricing of FS Passengers X, and the discount FS 9 users
get.

And to be honest, Dan can price 'his' product as what ever he wants, its the consumer's choice in which he/she wishes to buy it. You don't
see Dell or Car Manufactors asking people who walk in, "excuse me Sir, I was wondering if you can tell me how much you would buy this
car for, so we have get a rough idea in which we can sell it for" do you now?

On the day it comes to you Ken, if you think the product is over priced, then save up for it, or don't buy it at all. It's you choice, it depends on
how much you want it.

If a Mod or Dan himself could give better reasons and all that would be great :D

Matt

[KenG]

Harper1984 wrote:
That is some very interesting logic. So do you ask for a pro-rating of everything you buy? Following your logic, if you buy a 2004 chevy car
with a GPS system, and in 2007 you decide to buy a 2007 chevy with a GPS do you also ask for a pro rate on your old care or old GPS
cause you only used it X amount of times? Not sure how much you are familiar with the business world but as a smallbusiness owner
myself, the thought of that is ridiculas. A consumer should only expect to recieve a pro rate on an item when the consumer is turning in
the item to be replaced and the item to be replaced is both recyclable and is guarenteed for a certain time,mileage ect. For instance car
tires, batteries. Why should Dan give anyone a pro rate for upgrading from 2004 to FSX and then upgrading fsp2004 to FSP X when that
is your choice. He has not forced you in anyway to make those changes as well as both fs2004 and fsp2004 are still supported. As a
business man, where do you stop? when fs 2020 and fsp 2020 come out? Any electronic game, or basic product for that matter that is not
recyclable by the manufacture or guarenteed for a set amount of time has a life as long as you decide to use it. That choice is the
consumers and not the sellers. Your choice is to not upgrade or not buy the product because you dont like the price or whatever reason
you decide. If that is your reason then thats fine but funny because im sure you do not go back to best buy or circuit city with a home
theater system thats 3 years old and want them to give you a discount on the next model of home theater system. If you do do that then
you must get laughed at alot

If I buy a car through a dealership then go back and buy another car from that same dealership, then yes I do ask for a customer loyalty discount. As for other stores, there is competition for the same product that allows me to take the advertisement from say Best Buy into Circuit City and ask them to price match their competition. If I buy a 5 year On-Star contract and only use it for 3 years than YES I ask for a refund on the unused portion of my contract or to have the unused portion applied to my new contract.

Now software is a unique situation, it is one of the only products that I buy and do not own. (per licensing agreements) Thus when I stopped using FSP I had no right to resell my old username and key as say I would be able to trade in my 2004 Chevy or sell my old Home Theater system. Thus since the software business locks me in with this ridiculous agreement where I buy rights to use the software with no future rights then yes I will ask for a discount. I could sell my FS2004 CDs should I choose, I can not do that with FSP.

Finally, I am tired of small business owners who forget the golden rule of business (besides he who has the gold makes the rules); the customer is always right. In the end it is my choice to spend my money somewhere or not. If you laughed me out of your store for asking for a discount then I write my local paper to let them know about your business practices and lodge a compliant with with BBB. Embarrassing customers must get you lots of return business.

Dan can choose to price his product for whatever he wants. I am also allowed to ask for a discount, no law against that.

I have noticed a distinct lack of response from the crowd that matter in this discussion. I can see the lack of customer support already, where else can someone ask how much and be totally ignored by the business owner? What other business allows a customer to ask for a discount and other customers to berate the person who asked for the discount? Real professional job here.



Post Edited ( 05-19-08 00:19 )

[benjaminhuff]

$45.00 American would be just fine. Price it higher than normal to entice the product for the high standards, excitement, usability and
overall quality. The rest of you blokes can scramble around for nuts. I expect the pricing to upgrade system components and OS software
will be $500 alone. This is a quality product having received lots of intuitive feedback for the new edition. I say price it high and watch'em
wiggle!

[pagir]

I didn't a special price when I bought FsX, even if a owned FS2004 for a long time... And Microsoft isn't a small business.

FsX won't really be an "upgrade" of the Fs2004 version. Maybe some part of the program core will be the same, but appart that this new version will
add new features and new stuff.

I don't know if Dan will give a rebate for the previous FsP2004 owners, but I don't think he "have to"...

Pagir

[jeffreycor]

KenG wrote:
[quote]Harper1984 wrote:

Finally, I am tired of small business owners who forget the golden rule of business (besides he who has the gold makes the rules); the
customer is always right.

This is the biggest error that there can possibly be. The fact of most business is the customer is NEVER right. If they were, they wouldn't
need you (the specialist providing the services). Go to a doctor and just tell them what needs to be done, no you tell them the symptoms
then they tell you the options on what to do. Unless you're very adapt at auto repair when something is wrong with a car, you go to a
service shop with the problem the them to determine the problem and how to fix it. Similerly with a computer problem, it goes in for
diagnostic testing and repair. This is the first thing anyone learn is business, if the customer was right to begin with they wouldn't be
coming to you for help they would just do it themselves.

[DBE]

Ken,

Dan has mentioned more than once that there will a rebate for existing FsPax customers.

As the €19.00 was voiced by a member of this forum I would suggest you wait until the official price is released before mounting your high horse,
criticizing our customer support and submitting us to a lecture on best business practices.

[KenG]

A simple, "We are not ready to disclose a prices at this time" might have been one way to answer the inquiry.

But, if you feel more of a man now for playing the forum whack a mole then by all means, please have at it.

Cheers.



Post Edited ( 05-19-08 11:08 )

[DBE]

We are not ready to disclose a prices at this time.

Feeling better?

[KenG]

I don't know DBE.

Seems like people take to forums like they play their football.

^^Disclaimer^^ the statement above was meant to be a humorous and gentle poke. Anyone taking offense should disregard all ill attempt at humor and send complaints to http://www.complaintdepartment.com/ Be sure to mention my name as I am sure I have a long list! I am sure that I am on a hit list somewhere as well for those so inclined.



Post Edited ( 05-19-08 11:20 )

[DSW334]

KenG wrote:

Seems like people take to forums like they play their football.

You're then probably the best quarterback in town?

Serious Ken. In a perfect world the customer is the king and we wouldn't pay a dime for every product we use. After all.. Kings get all for
free. Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world. So that rule can be turned back into the fridge.

Microsoft decided to release an update for FS9 and called it FSX. Have you a seen a discount for fs9 users when you purchased fsx? No?
Why do you then expect a discount from add-on developers that are basically doing the same thing? And I am not talking about updates
that only make the fs9 product compliant with FSX. But full newly written programs with new features etc. Sure, it's a nice gesture from
the producer towards his loyal customers and I am always interested in such gestures But that's all it is. It's a gesture, not something
you can demand. Not with software at least.

I think as a customer you should make one simply assumption. When the software is released you check the features of the program,
the terms and conditions and the price. And then you make the decision. Is it worth the money or not?

[DSW334]

oops. double post. ignore this one.



Post Edited ( 05-19-08 13:16 )

[Harper1984]

KenG wrote:


If I buy a car through a dealership then go back and buy another car from that same dealership, then yes I do ask for a customer loyalty
discount. As for other stores, there is competition for the same product that allows me to take the advertisement from say Best Buy into
Circuit City and ask them to price match their competition. If I buy a 5 year On-Star contract and only use it for 3 years than YES I ask for a
refund on the unused portion of my contract or to have the unused portion applied to my new contract.

Now software is a unique situation, it is one of the only products that I buy and do not own. (per licensing agreements) Thus when I
stopped using FSP I had no right to resell my old username and key as say I would be able to trade in my 2004 Chevy or sell my old
Home Theater system. Thus since the software business locks me in with this ridiculous agreement where I buy rights to use the
software with no future rights then yes I will ask for a discount. I could sell my FS2004 CDs should I choose, I can not do that with FSP.

Finally, I am tired of small business owners who forget the golden rule of business (besides he who has the gold makes the rules); the
customer is always right. In the end it is my choice to spend my money somewhere or not. If you laughed me out of your store for asking
for a discount then I write my local paper to let them know about your business practices and lodge a compliant with with BBB.
Embarrassing customers must get you lots of return business.

Dan can choose to price his product for whatever he wants. I am also allowed to ask for a discount, no law against that.

I have noticed a distinct lack of response from the crowd that matter in this discussion. I can see the lack of customer support already,
where else can someone ask how much and be totally ignored by the business owner? What other business allows a customer to ask
for a discount and other customers to berate the person who asked for the discount? Real professional job here.

Well I would certaintly like to met the new car salesman who gave you a "returning customer" discount.. Yea the same percentage
discount he gives other folks, depending on the person he would call it something different. In my case it would be "Take my offer or I will
leave this lot discount" in your case it would be " a returning customer discount " name changed to make you feel good.

The BBB would never take a complaint from someone because they were upset with the price or because I laughed at you when you
came into my store and asked for a pro rate on something. Lucky for us business owners the BBB only takes real complaints from
people being screwed by a business, not a customer being mad cause hes not getting what he thinks a business owes him. Wouldn't be
surprised if the person at the BBB would laugh as well.

Supply and demand says it all, if dan can sell it for 50 then good for him and if someone doesnt want to buy it for 50 then good for them.
Both exercising thier rights.

But in the end I think judging by just how very very little time you let expire before you start talking about dans lack of customer support and
on a weekend no doubt, says absolutly everything about what kind of customer and consumer you are.

[KenG]

DSW334 wrote:

You're then probably the best quarterback in town?

Now you assumed that when I said football that I was talking American football as opposed to the football played in most of the world.

If you want to walk around life paying full retail price for everything you buy I do not chastise you for that decision, I may think your an idiot,
but hey it is your money. Don't chastise me for trying to get a deal, you may think I'm an idiot, but hey it is my money.