Fares and Pricing

[Covoxer]

The ongoing debate continues. Reminds me of a Republican / Democrat political debate (no one will win the argument)

You right!

Though we may stop it at any time actually.
A lot was written and everyone interested may read this and make up his mind.
So I hope this discussion will be useful for some people at least.
I did not suppose that anyone of you would change his way of playing FsP due to my arguments, but I hope it makes you to think about
the whole process form a bit different side. If it didn't, well, newermind.
Actually, John had turned his DC-3's fro 30pax VIP to 18 pax VIP layout, and that's already a succes of this debate.

I know that I may look like a stubborn, opinionated moron, that wants everybody to think the way he does...
Believe me, I'm not.
I just stand on this position to support the discussion. As you may see, noone else think this way, or want to tell that he does, so I had to
stand alone agains all of you!
Wasn't it cool?
Infact, I can cheat too, or do things that someone can call a cheat, just like I've called your VIP configs.
But this discussion is really awesome!
So thank you guys:
jboweruk, CowlFlapsOpen, SaVas, Sovek
for standing on your position and stating very interesting points and ideas!
On the other hand, I hope that at least some of my arguments may be intersting or usefull too.
Thank you all for a great discussion!

So.... shall we continue?

[SaVas]

I agree..its remained civil which is always a good thing (unlike political debates which are rarely civil)

We all have differing ideas on how we like to use FsP and there is nothing wrong with that.

[jboweruk]

Covoxer whatever I have or may have said, or however it came across: I sincerely hope it was taken the way it was meant, as good
natured fun debating on an issue. I certainly have enjoyed it and am glad it came public rather than remaining hidden in PM's, much
more fun that way. You are a good arguer, and while I don't entirely agree with your points you do lay them down in a valid manner. And
as SaVas pointed out, we kept it civil.

Thanks to everyone for a warm yet good natured debate on the merits (or lack of) of choosing VIP on your aircraft.

HAPPY FLYING ALL!!!

[SaVas]

One thing that I thought about...

It was discussed that FsP allows you to do time acceleration (granted with a deduction in points) but on the same token if you wish you
can create a payload model for a 747 thats nothing but VIP. Neither are realistic but it can be done on both accounts in FsP. FsP allows
the user to basically design FsP to fit what they want using the foundation Dan created, or the user can use FsP with default everything.
Thats a great thing about FsP.

And as for the modifier, yes I could have increased the modifier more than I have now (presently 3x) but I wanted to increase my FsP
funds slowly. With 50x I was able to buy whatever I wanted after about 300 hours of flight time, and now with 540 hours I can buy
something that at most is around 3 million which includes some larger planes that either need a lot of work or have a lot of hours on the
airframe.

My idea behind the low multiplier is I am presently a one man operation (but with the fleet bonus I imagine I have a couple of other pilots
that fly around) and I like it this way. I dont want to have the option of buying a 747 after 3 months of daily flying. If I ever do get a 747 I want
it to take a long time, so I can sit back and enjoy FsP how I designed my scenario and how I imagine my little airline to be.

I made several planes VIP seating to fit what I wanted in FsP. Not all are VIP. My better planes or more rugged planes in the fleet are
used specifically for the deep bush flying or executive air travel. Ones that I just use for commuting between various municipal airports
are not VIP for short hops.

It really does boil down to the addage "to each his/her own"

[Covoxer]

Neither are realistic but it can be done on both accounts in FsP.

But you get less points with time reduction. And you do not sacrifice anything when you change payload models. So, I suppose it is not
the same.

(but with the fleet bonus I imagine I have a couple of other pilots that fly around)

I rather think of it as I give those planes for rent. This way I do not need to have any pilots and exact flight reports. Besides, my clients do
their maintanace so that planes still stay in perfect condition!

I dont want to have the option of buying a 747 after 3 months of daily flying.

Wow! Most people would not play that long!

[SaVas]

I figure as it is, it will take me about 2 years + before I can afford a 747 lol

[CowlFlapsOpen]

agree to disagree Covoxer. I am a little hurt that you keep calling me a cheater because I fly very realitically (no pressurization if the aircraft
isn't in real life, seats only where they are in real life, always record flights, started with a zero cash balance, don't use a multiplier, no time
acceleration, etc. etc.) It seems the only thing we disagree on is that I call my seats VIP when I could charge the same price and call them Economy.

But, seriously, no hard feelings. Good stuff. I like these philosophical discussions. See you all on the next topic. Cheers!

[Covoxer]

I am a little hurt that you keep calling me a cheater because I fly very realitically

Sorry about that...
I didn't mean to be rude, you know.
Actually you can call me cheater too, since I use x50 multiplier
But on the other hand I do everything else as realistic as it possible. Maybe even too much, since I newer use GPS as it makes my flying
a nobrainer, and for sometime now I fly with keyboard - another challenge aspeccially at the crosswind landings!
I fly real weather ant date/time, careere, economy, all seats default class (made by Dan ), have not recorded only 2 flights yet, but both
were deadly jokes from ATC+AI I fly with all penalties on and crashes/collisions on, with 100% AI traffic and I use default ATC which is
probably another challenge. I always run from cold and dark at the place I've finished my previous flight with this plane and taxi pax to the
gate after landing. I do never use time acceleration during my flights and do all navigation on my own, using FSNav only as a map (with
plane position turned off).This way of flying is particularly interesting if you fly DC-3 or other planes with its level ov avionics
I newer fly higher than about 10'000ft with not pressurized planes too.
I started my company with $300'000 and spend about $200'000 right away for a MooneyBravo.

Maybe this all can ease yo pain a bit... I mean, if some kind of freak, who do not fly realisticaly at all, call you a cheater, you would probably
have to be upset. But I'm not a freak, I mean, I fly mostly like you, so it could be not that offensive... Is it?

But, seriously, no hard feelings. Good stuff. I like these philosophical discussions. See you all on the next topic. Cheers!

I love philosophical discussions!!!
Cheers!
:flover:

[jboweruk]

One other thing, this whole discussion has given me back something, on Sunday and Monday I had completely lost my will to fly but by
Tuesday night I had it back and wanted to fly again. Then last night too. So Thanks Covoxer, it's been good.

Regarding Navigation in the DC3's, I don't use a map either unless I have my real world West-Coast one handy. I let my CP/Navigator tell
me the heading to the next airport, and once the nav radio picks up a signal I keep the line centred. Trouble with Washington State is it's
nearly always zero vis in low cloud.

[Covoxer]

I let my CP/Navigator tell me the heading to the next airport, and once the nav radio picks up a signal I keep the line centred.

Well, I fly strictly by filed IFR flight plane mostly using Victor airways.
And as I say, I do navigation on my own, so to find out my exact position I need at least two navaids either VOR's or NDB's in range.
There's no DME equipment in DC-3 and no ILS and VOR receivers give you just as much info as ADF!
And it has very cool A/P especially for those who like to fly with time compression, if you know what I mean
And ILS approaches and landings are extremely exciting especially when you have visibility less than one mile, some 090@15
crosswind (landing at RW36) and turbulence all the way down to the runway!
I just love it...
I know, DC-3 is not certified for ILS, but it's sooo sweeet!

I'm serious about that.

[jboweruk]

I'm using the MAAM-Sim one, based on a real plane and it definitely has a VOR/DME down in the bottom left of the dash. Hard to see but
definitely there. And that lady has no autopilot, at least not that I can find.



Post Edited ( 01-26-06 15:18 )

[SaVas]

jboweruk wrote:
And that lady has no autopilot, at least not that I can find.

Easy enough to fix using the Autopilot section in the cfg from the default cessna 172

[Jason]

No offense to anyone, but it's my game and I can do whatever I want to it and I am not cheating.

Personally I started a company, and am now up to 3 aircraft, mooney, baron 58, and now since i just got c4, a king air 350.

I set the king air to VIP seating, as I feel it warrants it. is that cheating? NOPE.

My other two aircraft are whatever the default is, economy I assume. But the King Air is a dog gone nice aircraft and if I feel that people
will pay for VIP prices, why not set them?

[SaVas]

Jason, no offense taken, we are just having a friendly debate on how everyone sees the usages of FsP.

Agreed its your game, do as you see fit within the confines of what FsP allows and have fun with it

[Covoxer]

I'm using the MAAM-Sim one, based on a real plane

I'm using default one. It's good enough for flying
There were about 10'000 of DC-3 and it's variants build. Many of them had cockpit layout costomized for the airline.
With the time, Dacotas were re-equiped with more advanced avionics.
So, no wonder that two DC-3's can have completely different set of equipment.

and it definitely has a VOR/DME down in the bottom left of the dash. Hard to see but definitely there.

Well, in MS one, there's definitely no DME. I believe that their cockpit represent 40's era or something.
There are:
- two ADF's
- two VOR's but they show only direction
- two COM's
- audio marker (no lights)
That's it. No DME, not course indication, no ILS glideslope.

And that lady has no autopilot, at least not that I can find.

There should be one. It was default equipment for most planes built and I doubt that someone was replacing it with more modern or
completly removing.
A/P in DC-3 can hold heading (HDG) and pitch. If it's ON, it holds both these parameters.
It is located in the middle-up part of the dashboard, between captain and 1st officer boards.
It sonsists of two two round gagues - left is horisontal compass used to set HDG, right is artificial horozont to set the pith angle.
I'we seen this device on most photos of the DC-3 cockpit (except those, where all gagues were removed as a plane was thrashed).
So, I believe you have it too.

One more funny thing about this A/P in Microsoft's model, is that it is based on the gyro-compass and if you have gyro drift set on (I have),
then it loses its orientation with time, so that you have to tune it looking and magnetic compass peridically.
I just love it...