09-08-2005, 02:09 AM
Ah cool, you're back, we can debate 
Because probably 90% people but possibly more use Fs2004 standalone on one PC only.
Also writting an external program would piss those 90% people that wan to run Fs2004 in full screen
without switching constantly. FsP CAN be used with wideFs or any other program, as stated previously
you don't need the menu at all in flight, all functions are accessable by keyboard shortcut, so 100%
(well 99.40% without you
are pleased: those that want to use it on one PC only and those that want to use
it in a network. Even with wideFs you still have a joy and keyboard connected to your main PC and as FsP
is really FPS friendly there is no problem to run it on the main PC. If you don't like keyboard, just assign
FsP key to your joy and you can serve food or dring and declare an emergency with one finger.
Sorry but I have to disagree on this one, the first things I was doing when starting FsP one years ago was
to write my own "FSUIPC" to explore Fs9 data, the extraction of data HAVE an impact on the performance,
they don't come by themself the code have to extract them and send them. Also the proof is that well coded
an application doesn't have much impact: FsP have exactly 50'400 line of code and I can hardly see any
framerate loss on my old P4 1.7GHZ.
BUT given the amount of data FsP need 10 time per second it would be a dumb idea to make a FsP
throught a network... and a nightmare to code, also you missed that FsP doesn't only grab data from Fs9
but also modify the data (see failure, keyboard input for com and lot of other things)
Now you list three feature, I can also say that skiing is dumb because you just goes up/down but that's missing the point,
FsP have much more things, an ATC chatter, map flight recording, co-pilot announce , crew, the abilities to allow you to
enter com/nav/AP heading-altitude- speed-/transponder/altimeter/decision height/ by keyboard... no more pain clicking
on panel you type C121.90 and your com1 is set on 121.90 with co-pilot voice. The report are all kept and really more
appealing than Fs9 logbook, also all those flight count for your pilot's career and your company. Features really doesn't
stop here but I'll not list all of them, they are all on the screenhsot section of this site and in the doc.
(perhaps you missed also that you CAN run a company without economic mode?)
What I think you missed and will try to explain below (remember english isn't my mother language)
When I first took my real flight lesson especially during my first solo , the main difference that I found with the simulator
was that my life was in my hand, that any action that I can make could have really bad consequence, I can even die if I
made bad mistake.. So you pay more attention to things you feel RESPONSIBLE and completely AWAKE (might be better lol).
Also you get a lot more stress due to that and your mind doesn't function as when your comfortably on a chair
watching screen. You do an important things.
When I go back to home and have to stop my real flight because of lack of money my intterest for Fs2004 dropped
by 2000%... not because of the view, not because of the flight feeling but because no one would care anymore if I
do a looping with a 747, pull 5 G with 354 passengers behind me or dive like a kamikase before landing.
I would be able to log 1000 hours in Fs2004 while flying like a dumbass, how would does hours have any values ?
You can crash 50 time and still be proud of your 1000 hours "hey I'm DA man I know take-off and landing"
Also while nobody care and you don't have much to loose you miss an important things of real flight: humain factor.
thousand pilot died because they were late and could not sustain the pressure and forgot some important things,
thousand payed with their live because they could not sustain a stress with a problem aboard and keep their head clear
for important things.
THIS is the main point of FsP, beyond all the feature listed THIS is what is FsP made for.
now you can't just take-off do whatewer you want and land and call this a success,
you have to fly in a manner that would not hurt your passengers nor your aircraft, you must log hours
of course but all those hours should be done nicelly, as real pilot do with a feeling of responsabilities.
Not only for your satisfaction (the brain tend to forgot the "litle 5G that I pulled here - hey I landed it's still a success!")
but also because everyone will notice it and piss you for the "litle 5G"
You can read some testimony on the site "had a bird strike on take off.... crashed on landing" why ?
because FsP goal is reached: Pilot had some stress because they were in concern about their career
and they bypassed some important step, so you can touch a bit of the real flight feeling:
"Damn ! bird strike said the co-pilot, engine flameout...well... first the plane, speed , attitude, what's
next ? yes.. quiet with flaps, we don't want to damage them... now declare emergency... the crew announce that
ok .. passengers are scarred but at least they all have seat belt now... quiet with the stick, speed,
attitude, remember dissimetricall thrust, keep energy , ok easy now easy...... gentle with brake, reverse, ok ...
shut down reverse, we don't want to damage them... pfuuuu... safe... passengers applause... wow ! 1500 pilots points"
In brief you will be much more proud of your safe landing because you managed your stress
and was doing much more than simply landing your aircraft: you kept your passengers comfortable
and alive.
Also some other testimony: "was late - dive like a made got penalty - company reputation went down"
Nobody can say in Fs that he never took some freedom with reality with a bit of diving "hey I was a bit high"
but as none notice, finally that's not bad.. and you'll forget this dive easilly: your flight was a BIG sucess...you landed.
And last but not least: too much pilot end with aircraft gallery trying all aircraft available , because after a while
Fs9 can be boring, there is no goal, nothing to reach but your hown satisfaction (based on your biased mind
about your performance -don't say no, this is humain-) no one to please.
So now: can you log hours flying in a way that will please your passengers ? can you make a career without those
"litle 5G" and without the "litle dive because I was a bit high" ? I bet when you reach 1000 hours they will not
have the same value than without FsP.
Hope it explain a bit the goal of FsP ?... As you see I can speak about FsP during hours but I have to work to
enhance it...
As conclusion I will say that not all people are the same and fly for the same reason, I can understand that some
may be bored by FsP -taken that they understand fully what it does- but imho you missed the point,
try it again for free and try to run a career, can you make 10 flight perfect ? and most important : are you sure
you have the same reponsabilities feeling if you fly without FsP ?
But again, you might not like that, all taste are allowed of course... but I would preffer a title as "I don't like FsP"
than "FsP is so so" imho FsP reach its goal and do it well, "FsP is so so" mean more that's it's badly done.
Dan
Post Edited ( 08-09-05 04:50 )
Quote:byoung wrote:
First , Dan let me say you did a great job on FSP. Based on your explanation I see your point about integration. I still don't see why it
couldn't be a standalone utility instead of integrated.
Because probably 90% people but possibly more use Fs2004 standalone on one PC only.
Also writting an external program would piss those 90% people that wan to run Fs2004 in full screen
without switching constantly. FsP CAN be used with wideFs or any other program, as stated previously
you don't need the menu at all in flight, all functions are accessable by keyboard shortcut, so 100%
(well 99.40% without you
are pleased: those that want to use it on one PC only and those that want to useit in a network. Even with wideFs you still have a joy and keyboard connected to your main PC and as FsP
is really FPS friendly there is no problem to run it on the main PC. If you don't like keyboard, just assign
FsP key to your joy and you can serve food or dring and declare an emergency with one finger.
Quote:byoung wrote:
The flight data is set and read over a network by FSUIPC / WideFS. Each one of these utilities,
especially external ones, take up resources on the main flight sim computer. Less resources = lower FPS, especially when FS 2004 is
extreamly CPU dependent.
Sorry but I have to disagree on this one, the first things I was doing when starting FsP one years ago was
to write my own "FSUIPC" to explore Fs9 data, the extraction of data HAVE an impact on the performance,
they don't come by themself the code have to extract them and send them. Also the proof is that well coded
an application doesn't have much impact: FsP have exactly 50'400 line of code and I can hardly see any
framerate loss on my old P4 1.7GHZ.
BUT given the amount of data FsP need 10 time per second it would be a dumb idea to make a FsP
throught a network... and a nightmare to code, also you missed that FsP doesn't only grab data from Fs9
but also modify the data (see failure, keyboard input for com and lot of other things)
Quote:byoung wrote:
Load Passengers, Cargo and Fuel with the loader feature of FSP, kind of cool. All A/C payware developers should do this internally in FS!
Give the passengers drinks and food to make them happy, OK I am a pilot / flight attendant now making that vital decision whether to
serve food and drinks What's next in-flight conversations between passengers and the pilot? Hey mister passenger, you think I should
track this VOR radial, or maybe the ADF this time, just for fun? (I know I am being a little sarchastic of course
Land and get an in-flight report (pay and rating). Again pretty cool, and if you like the economics, then this might be a good product for you.
Now you list three feature, I can also say that skiing is dumb because you just goes up/down but that's missing the point,
FsP have much more things, an ATC chatter, map flight recording, co-pilot announce , crew, the abilities to allow you to
enter com/nav/AP heading-altitude- speed-/transponder/altimeter/decision height/ by keyboard... no more pain clicking
on panel you type C121.90 and your com1 is set on 121.90 with co-pilot voice. The report are all kept and really more
appealing than Fs9 logbook, also all those flight count for your pilot's career and your company. Features really doesn't
stop here but I'll not list all of them, they are all on the screenhsot section of this site and in the doc.
(perhaps you missed also that you CAN run a company without economic mode?)
What I think you missed and will try to explain below (remember english isn't my mother language)
When I first took my real flight lesson especially during my first solo , the main difference that I found with the simulator
was that my life was in my hand, that any action that I can make could have really bad consequence, I can even die if I
made bad mistake.. So you pay more attention to things you feel RESPONSIBLE and completely AWAKE (might be better lol).
Also you get a lot more stress due to that and your mind doesn't function as when your comfortably on a chair
watching screen. You do an important things.
When I go back to home and have to stop my real flight because of lack of money my intterest for Fs2004 dropped
by 2000%... not because of the view, not because of the flight feeling but because no one would care anymore if I
do a looping with a 747, pull 5 G with 354 passengers behind me or dive like a kamikase before landing.
I would be able to log 1000 hours in Fs2004 while flying like a dumbass, how would does hours have any values ?
You can crash 50 time and still be proud of your 1000 hours "hey I'm DA man I know take-off and landing"
Also while nobody care and you don't have much to loose you miss an important things of real flight: humain factor.
thousand pilot died because they were late and could not sustain the pressure and forgot some important things,
thousand payed with their live because they could not sustain a stress with a problem aboard and keep their head clear
for important things.
THIS is the main point of FsP, beyond all the feature listed THIS is what is FsP made for.
now you can't just take-off do whatewer you want and land and call this a success,
you have to fly in a manner that would not hurt your passengers nor your aircraft, you must log hours
of course but all those hours should be done nicelly, as real pilot do with a feeling of responsabilities.
Not only for your satisfaction (the brain tend to forgot the "litle 5G that I pulled here - hey I landed it's still a success!")
but also because everyone will notice it and piss you for the "litle 5G"
You can read some testimony on the site "had a bird strike on take off.... crashed on landing" why ?
because FsP goal is reached: Pilot had some stress because they were in concern about their career
and they bypassed some important step, so you can touch a bit of the real flight feeling:
"Damn ! bird strike said the co-pilot, engine flameout...well... first the plane, speed , attitude, what's
next ? yes.. quiet with flaps, we don't want to damage them... now declare emergency... the crew announce that
ok .. passengers are scarred but at least they all have seat belt now... quiet with the stick, speed,
attitude, remember dissimetricall thrust, keep energy , ok easy now easy...... gentle with brake, reverse, ok ...
shut down reverse, we don't want to damage them... pfuuuu... safe... passengers applause... wow ! 1500 pilots points"
In brief you will be much more proud of your safe landing because you managed your stress
and was doing much more than simply landing your aircraft: you kept your passengers comfortable
and alive.
Also some other testimony: "was late - dive like a made got penalty - company reputation went down"
Nobody can say in Fs that he never took some freedom with reality with a bit of diving "hey I was a bit high"
but as none notice, finally that's not bad.. and you'll forget this dive easilly: your flight was a BIG sucess...you landed.
And last but not least: too much pilot end with aircraft gallery trying all aircraft available , because after a while
Fs9 can be boring, there is no goal, nothing to reach but your hown satisfaction (based on your biased mind
about your performance -don't say no, this is humain-) no one to please.
So now: can you log hours flying in a way that will please your passengers ? can you make a career without those
"litle 5G" and without the "litle dive because I was a bit high" ? I bet when you reach 1000 hours they will not
have the same value than without FsP.
Hope it explain a bit the goal of FsP ?... As you see I can speak about FsP during hours but I have to work to
enhance it...
As conclusion I will say that not all people are the same and fly for the same reason, I can understand that some
may be bored by FsP -taken that they understand fully what it does- but imho you missed the point,
try it again for free and try to run a career, can you make 10 flight perfect ? and most important : are you sure
you have the same reponsabilities feeling if you fly without FsP ?
But again, you might not like that, all taste are allowed of course... but I would preffer a title as "I don't like FsP"
than "FsP is so so" imho FsP reach its goal and do it well, "FsP is so so" mean more that's it's badly done.
Dan
Post Edited ( 08-09-05 04:50 )
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