07-11-2005, 04:35 PM
Hi Dan. I posted this elsewhere too, as you asked if someone would take a look at the instructions and provide you feedback because of the language
barrier. Here is a summary of what I learned that may help others. However, make sure I got it right! Thanks!
There are two ways to make a payload. The first is to take the empty CG and station positions directly from the aircraft.cfg and translate them to
the payload. This approach is appropriate if you intend to make a payload model for a specific aircraft (say DreemFleet's Baron 58) but it will be
incorrect if you try to use it for another aircraft in that category (say the default Baron). This approach is also required in specific cases when
the aircraft's designer has given an inaccurate empty CG--usually because he/she assumed that the aircraft had passengers when developing the flight
dynamics.
The second approach allows FS Passengers to estimate the CG using some internal trial and error tests and you supply the position of the stations
relative to whatever CG FS Passengers arrives at. The advatage of this appoach is that it is purely conceptual: You do not need to know the specific
locations for your stations or you can add stations that don't exist in real life--you only need to have an idea of where you want them placed
relative to one another(and the CG that FS Passengers deduces). A second advantage is that this payload can be used as a template for other aircraft
in the same category (all payware and default 747s you have for example). The stations in this appraoch will not correspond to those specified by the
maker of a specific aircraft and therefore are less realistic, but they should work generally and FS Passengers will test whether they are out of
bounds for the aircraff in question. If you don't have a payload for your specific airplane and you have one of these "generic" payloads, FS
Passengers will load it automatically (provided the aircraft name matches at least a portion of the payload names as discussed elswhere in a FAQ).
The specific approach: After creating the image you wish to use and starting the payload editor, check the "Disable position calculation" in the
payload editor. Using the aircraft.cfg, determine the stations using the longitudinal, lateral, and vertical distance given for each station and the
baggage compartment. FS Passengers does not model lateral position, so you can ignore this. Below is the Weight and Balance section from the default
C182, as an example. To model the two seats behind the pilot and copilot (station_load.2 and station_load.3), for example, create a station with 2
passengers, Z Pos = -6.2 and Y Pos - 0.0. This will place this set of seats 6.2 feet aft of the aircraft's modeled CG (which interested folks is 3.0
feet aft of a reference point 3.6 feet forward of the 1/4 chord line of the wing--or just above the wing i.e., 3.6 minus 3.0). Create a baggage
compartment 2 further feet aft of this, at -8.0 and 0.0. The procedure for airliners is the same although obviously there will be large numbers of
passengers at each station, depending. More on pilot and crew later.
The generic approach. Ignore the aircraft.cfg and simply visualize where you want different seating. FS Passengers will locate those seats in those
relative posiions in any aircraft you select and will determine, specifically, WHERE in the aircraft (in absolute terms viz the airframe) those seats
are later, when it determines the CG for that specific aircraft. So, for example, you might specify that you want 2 seats 3 feet in front of the CG
and 2 seats 3 feet behind those (nice leg room). The position for the first set would be z = 3.0 and Y = 0.0 and the second set Z =0.0 and Y=0.0. Be
careful to balance seating roughly around the CG in an offsetting fashion because you can obviously build a seating arrangement that is so out of
whack that the aircraft can't fly. You do not need to worry about this with the Specific Approach above as the developer considered this when they
supplied the values in the aircraft.cfg
Pilot and crew. FS Passengers does not model pilot and co-pilot on board. In large airliners their weight and balance can probably be ignore safely.
With light or medium GA aircraft they are a consideration. There are two alternatives. The easy solution is to place a station for them using the
procedures above and define it as "no charge". FS Passenegers will choose a pilot and co-pilot from among your passengers at the gate. This has some
disadvantahes:
1. it is unrealistic to ask a passenger to fly the plane unless this is a self-service airline (!)
2. the weight of flight crew varies from flight to flight,
3. you won't get a co-pilot usually if there are fewer passengers waiting at the gate than you have spaces for,
4.The pilot's name is not the name of the company pilot, and
5. You lose a potential paying customer or two.
If you place this station as the last station in the payload manager (#4), FS Passengers will fill it first which helps with the no co-pilot or pilot
problem.
There is a work around if you use the Specific Approach: In the aircraft.cfg, adjust the empty_weight value to add 190-200 pounds each for a pilot and
co-pilot. Determine from the aircraft.cfg where their position is relative to the empty CG would be (usually slightly forward). One way to do this is
to use the payload manager in MSFS and watch the "target" on the airplane model as you load weights for a pilot and co-pilot. Estimate the relative
change on CG and adjust the CG value accordingly in the aircraft.cfg. This adjustment will remain even you don't fly with FS Passenegers, so if you
are not flying with FS Passengers be careful not to load a pilot and co-pilot in the MSFS payload manager or the aircraft will be very off balance.
====================================================================================
[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 3110 // (pounds)
empty_weight = 1810 // (pounds)
reference_datum_position = 3.6, 0, 0 // (feet) distance from FlightSim Reference position: (1/4 chord, centerline, waterline)
empty_weight_CG_position = -3.0, 0, 0 // (feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from specified datum
max_number_of_stations = 50
station_load.0 = "0, -3.0, -1.5, 0.0, Pilot" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.1 = "0, -3.0, 1.5, 0.0, Front Passenger" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.2 = "0, -6.2, -1.5, 0.0, Rear Passenger" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.3 = "0, -6.2, 1.5, 0.0, Rear Passenger" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.4 = "0, -8.0, 0.0, 0.0, Baggage" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 1400.0
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 1137.0
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 2360.0
empty_weight_coupled_MOI= 0.0
Quote this message in your reply
barrier. Here is a summary of what I learned that may help others. However, make sure I got it right! Thanks!
There are two ways to make a payload. The first is to take the empty CG and station positions directly from the aircraft.cfg and translate them to
the payload. This approach is appropriate if you intend to make a payload model for a specific aircraft (say DreemFleet's Baron 58) but it will be
incorrect if you try to use it for another aircraft in that category (say the default Baron). This approach is also required in specific cases when
the aircraft's designer has given an inaccurate empty CG--usually because he/she assumed that the aircraft had passengers when developing the flight
dynamics.
The second approach allows FS Passengers to estimate the CG using some internal trial and error tests and you supply the position of the stations
relative to whatever CG FS Passengers arrives at. The advatage of this appoach is that it is purely conceptual: You do not need to know the specific
locations for your stations or you can add stations that don't exist in real life--you only need to have an idea of where you want them placed
relative to one another(and the CG that FS Passengers deduces). A second advantage is that this payload can be used as a template for other aircraft
in the same category (all payware and default 747s you have for example). The stations in this appraoch will not correspond to those specified by the
maker of a specific aircraft and therefore are less realistic, but they should work generally and FS Passengers will test whether they are out of
bounds for the aircraff in question. If you don't have a payload for your specific airplane and you have one of these "generic" payloads, FS
Passengers will load it automatically (provided the aircraft name matches at least a portion of the payload names as discussed elswhere in a FAQ).
The specific approach: After creating the image you wish to use and starting the payload editor, check the "Disable position calculation" in the
payload editor. Using the aircraft.cfg, determine the stations using the longitudinal, lateral, and vertical distance given for each station and the
baggage compartment. FS Passengers does not model lateral position, so you can ignore this. Below is the Weight and Balance section from the default
C182, as an example. To model the two seats behind the pilot and copilot (station_load.2 and station_load.3), for example, create a station with 2
passengers, Z Pos = -6.2 and Y Pos - 0.0. This will place this set of seats 6.2 feet aft of the aircraft's modeled CG (which interested folks is 3.0
feet aft of a reference point 3.6 feet forward of the 1/4 chord line of the wing--or just above the wing i.e., 3.6 minus 3.0). Create a baggage
compartment 2 further feet aft of this, at -8.0 and 0.0. The procedure for airliners is the same although obviously there will be large numbers of
passengers at each station, depending. More on pilot and crew later.
The generic approach. Ignore the aircraft.cfg and simply visualize where you want different seating. FS Passengers will locate those seats in those
relative posiions in any aircraft you select and will determine, specifically, WHERE in the aircraft (in absolute terms viz the airframe) those seats
are later, when it determines the CG for that specific aircraft. So, for example, you might specify that you want 2 seats 3 feet in front of the CG
and 2 seats 3 feet behind those (nice leg room). The position for the first set would be z = 3.0 and Y = 0.0 and the second set Z =0.0 and Y=0.0. Be
careful to balance seating roughly around the CG in an offsetting fashion because you can obviously build a seating arrangement that is so out of
whack that the aircraft can't fly. You do not need to worry about this with the Specific Approach above as the developer considered this when they
supplied the values in the aircraft.cfg
Pilot and crew. FS Passengers does not model pilot and co-pilot on board. In large airliners their weight and balance can probably be ignore safely.
With light or medium GA aircraft they are a consideration. There are two alternatives. The easy solution is to place a station for them using the
procedures above and define it as "no charge". FS Passenegers will choose a pilot and co-pilot from among your passengers at the gate. This has some
disadvantahes:
1. it is unrealistic to ask a passenger to fly the plane unless this is a self-service airline (!)
2. the weight of flight crew varies from flight to flight,
3. you won't get a co-pilot usually if there are fewer passengers waiting at the gate than you have spaces for,
4.The pilot's name is not the name of the company pilot, and
5. You lose a potential paying customer or two.
If you place this station as the last station in the payload manager (#4), FS Passengers will fill it first which helps with the no co-pilot or pilot
problem.
There is a work around if you use the Specific Approach: In the aircraft.cfg, adjust the empty_weight value to add 190-200 pounds each for a pilot and
co-pilot. Determine from the aircraft.cfg where their position is relative to the empty CG would be (usually slightly forward). One way to do this is
to use the payload manager in MSFS and watch the "target" on the airplane model as you load weights for a pilot and co-pilot. Estimate the relative
change on CG and adjust the CG value accordingly in the aircraft.cfg. This adjustment will remain even you don't fly with FS Passenegers, so if you
are not flying with FS Passengers be careful not to load a pilot and co-pilot in the MSFS payload manager or the aircraft will be very off balance.
====================================================================================
[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 3110 // (pounds)
empty_weight = 1810 // (pounds)
reference_datum_position = 3.6, 0, 0 // (feet) distance from FlightSim Reference position: (1/4 chord, centerline, waterline)
empty_weight_CG_position = -3.0, 0, 0 // (feet) longitudinal, lateral, vertical distance from specified datum
max_number_of_stations = 50
station_load.0 = "0, -3.0, -1.5, 0.0, Pilot" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.1 = "0, -3.0, 1.5, 0.0, Front Passenger" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.2 = "0, -6.2, -1.5, 0.0, Rear Passenger" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.3 = "0, -6.2, 1.5, 0.0, Rear Passenger" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.4 = "0, -8.0, 0.0, 0.0, Baggage" // Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 1400.0
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 1137.0
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 2360.0
empty_weight_coupled_MOI= 0.0
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