Please a 10 sec delay for OverSpeed penalty

[littleMax]

Today i did my 8. fligth but I'm still in minus points, about 8000
6000 from two test fights, where I tested belly-landing, first time crashed (-4200), second time nice belly (-1900).


But today I'm pissed off because of the overspeed penalty, I get it because there was a wind burst and I speeded up from 340 to 400 knots, it took me
about 5-6 sec to get the speed down. So a 10 sec delay would be great.

[Jetflyer]

Yes, I agree, in reality an aircraft is not likely to suffer any damage unless it is flown about 5-8% ABOVE Vmo anyway. It just becomes less
controllable (in reality). I have oversped twice (in the same plane) because of the panel incorrecting calibrating mach speed with IAS.

[SWAFO]

As far as I understand it, a plane immediately explodes when it reaches VMO.

[DanSteph]

SWAFO wrote:
As far as I understand it, a plane immediately explodes when it reaches VMO.

It's not VMO FsP complaint for exceeding VNE.

Jetflyer wrote:
Yes, I agree, in reality an aircraft is not likely to suffer any damage unless it is flown about 5-8%

If anything happen and the recorder show that you exceeded VNE
I doubt the insurances or anyone will have the same opinion...
You'll simply loose your job or worse depend of the problem.

Also if you experience serious turbulence at VNE your aircraft is more
likely to suffer some micro damage that can lead to odd effect years after.

VNE I recall is "SPEED NEVER EXCEED" not "speed that I'm allowed to exceed by 5%-8% if I want"

I agree that in reality on extremely rare case it may happen due to jet winds but
Fs2004 environnment is fully under control, up to you to have your weater parameters set
correctly so you don't have unrealistic burst of wind.

In brief such burst of wind are a bug in Fs9 often due to third party weather program or Fs9.
Solutions exist to remedy to this therefore it's not FsP's job to forget what is an extremely serious
fault in reallity.

Dan



Post Edited ( 11-07-05 20:21 )



Post Edited ( 11-07-05 20:24 )

[Jetflyer]

SWAFO wrote:
As far as I understand it, a plane immediately explodes when it reaches VMO.

Wow, when I'm a pilot I'm never going to join southwest....

DanSteph wrote:
VNE I recall is "SPEED NEVER EXCEED" not "speed that I'm allowed to exceed by 5%-8% if I want"

Actually Vne and VMo are two completely different speeds in jet airliners IIRC. Vne is the max airspeed you can fly at regardless of mach speed and Vmo is the max mach speed you can fly at regardless of airspeed, and is used for reference at high altitude. Is this correct?

I didn't say I could exceed 5-8% above Vmo anyway did I, read my post. It said that sometimes the plane goes above that because the airspeed and mach speed are not calibrated properly on the A320 panel I use and that the plane doesn't get DAMAGED until it goes that fast. Where did I say I think I should exceed it by 5-8% when I want? I didn't. I said that's when its more likely to be dangerous. Until that point it might be unflyable or very turbulent though.

So that you understand, I AM NOT SAYING I DELIBERATELY WANT TO FLY 5-8% FASTER THAN VMO OK???? God I hate it when someone assumes something I didn't say. It just annoys me.



Post Edited ( 11-07-05 20:56 )

[DanSteph]

Jetflyer wrote:
Actually Vne and VMo are two completely different speeds in jet airliners IIRC. Vne is the max airspeed you can fly at regardless of mach
speed and Vmo is the max mach speed you can fly at regardless of airspeed, and is used for reference at high altitude. Is this correct?
.

Not at all , VMO is Maximum Operating limit speed (MMO Mach Maximum Operating limit speed) VNE is speed never exceed.
a litle refresh: http://www.aviationboom.com/terms/vspeeds.shtml

Jetflyer wrote:
God I hate it when someone assumes something I didn't say. It just annoys me.

Sure, I personnaly dislike also when someone actually DON'T read my post, read previous
I don't speak about VMO exceeding but about VNE wich I recall is "SPEED NEVER EXCEED"
FsP would never complaint about exceeding VMO (MMO)



Dan



Post Edited ( 11-07-05 21:09 )

[Jetflyer]

I KNOW WHAT VNE IS. I just explained it. It is the max airspeed you can fly at which should not be exceeded. Vmo is the max MACH speed.

FSP must complain for VMo speed because my Airbus A321 was doing Mach 0.84 which is VMo for that aircraft but it wasn't at its never exceed airspeed.
What you don't understand is that on an airliner Mach 0.84 at 35,000ft is like 270-280kts, the airspeed of 280kts is way below its VNE but at its VMO.
So it hit its VMo and FSP registered this as overspeed. So it reads VMO as well. In other words, VMO becomes lower than VNE at high altitude in a jet
airliner. That is what I was taught....

[DanSteph]

Jetflyer wrote:
What you don't understand is that on an airliner Mach 0.84 at 35,000ft is like 270-280kts,

Actually I understand that very well... pressure temp etc etc.... I even
wrote the function that convert IAS <-> Mach speed in FsP, thanks.

In your first mail you agreed with the poster for a delay in penalty, I then pointed
that this has nothing to do with VMO but with VNE... as VNE is NEVER exceed
I cannot put a "delay"

VNE has to be calculated with table often given in aircraft operating book given pressure and temperature
VNE can be IAS 450kts at sea level and IAS 250kts at FL35 On this example You will be penalised for
going IAS 455kt at sea level and 255kts at FL35

Fortunately airspeed instrument in Fs2004 as in reallity often give the "red bar" of VNE that vary in function
of pressure and altitude....

if you exceed it you'll be penalised and still I can't put a delay on this detection.

Vmo is the max MACH speed.

No, exactly "Velocity Max Operation" indicated often in knots "Mmo" is the one you reffer "Mach Max operation".

Dan



Post Edited ( 11-07-05 21:31 )

[Capt. Wotan]

Wow you are rather angry about something Jetflyer, last time i checked it was just a discussion. However my two pence worth.
You are right in that Vmo is changable with altitude, as you get higher the Vmo gets lower, just as you said. Vmo is always defined in terms of
calibrated airpseed or how much stress can be placed on the airframe at the speed indicated. As Dan rightly Says MMO is a limiting MACH number, it's
really what happens to the airflow around the aircraft at that speed, if as you have indicated your A321 was doing MACH 0.84 some of the air around it
(in RL) would have been moving around quicker, producing nasty shockwaves and the like, these get worse the nearer you get to trans-sonic velocities.
Of course this plays a huge role in limiting the performance of Prop planes, generally speaking (not military) prop planes rarely exceed MACH 0.6 as
the blade speed increases the blade tip reaches super sonic speeds before the rest of the aircraft with a sharp performance loss, and of course lots
and lots of noise.

So there you go, you were both right.

[Jetflyer]

Ok problem solved and I guess it's fair to be penalised but sometimes things go funny where you can end up briefly overspeeding due to an FS2004 bug
or something. I'm not angry at all (at least not now) I was maybe a bit irritated because I just landed a 19 hour flight (done in real time) when the
computer froze on descent and stayed like that for around a minute and I thought it had crashed but then it unfroze. Whew.....

[Capt. Wotan]

Yeah tell me about it, my worst culprit is ASV, it has me up, down, faster slower, i lose count of how many times ASV has blown a perfectly good
flight, it does look nice though.

[Dutch64]

You can use wind and pressure smoothing in ASV though, or within FSUIPC, it makes a huge difference. I experienced these sudden shifts all the time
but now i got rid of them (as long as i don't use accelerated speed of course)

[Capt. Wotan]

I do try not to use accelerated time, but i nearly always end up using it. And yes that's when it happens once i'm at 16x. It's usually more
annoying than deadly, but there are times.

[Dutch64]

Know the feeling It's just that the autopilot has no idea anymore what to do and decides overspeeding might be an option



Post Edited ( 11-07-05 22:34 )

[Capt. Wotan]

I might stop using it if i can move from something other than the damn Mooney i've had since i bought the product. I opt'ed for the lowest level of
starting cash and economy mode; i've still only got £800,000, not enough to buy the Connie i've been eyeballing! Not even a bad one!