Landing Assistance

[MEISTER046]

I'm trying FSP on a trial, and I like it all except I cant land the plane without blowing tires. I fly an ILS straight to the
runway threshold. I hold my approache between 150 and 160 kts for the 737-800. As I hit the runway threshold I cut
the autopilot speed and reduce thrust to 0% and I pitch up about 10 degrees to flare. The breake is set to 1, Flaps
are fully extended and spoilers are armed. What am I doing wrong becuase I like FSP but landing and having to
start all over without a landing mission is frustrating me. When I keep the realisim in FSX to its fullest settings I
dont blow tires there. Thanks for the help.

[Joeflyer]

Welcome aboard!

The search function would have garnered some good information about this subject...it's been a popular issue. Please review this thread:
http://www.fspassengers.com/forum/showth...p?tid=7654

A friendly reminder...some people do not like the idea of anyone posting a thread with all caps. Please use lower case letters in future
posts

[Tracker801]

Joeflyer wrote:
A friendly reminder...some people do not like the idea of anyone posting a thread with all caps. Please use lower case letters in future
posts

AWWWWW, you beat me to it

[Powerke]

Speed is not the important thing here ....but your decent rate is prolly to high.
Try taking a longer aproach ...or use the ILS to guide you in.

But best advice is to start with smaller aircraft first ....get a Cesna 172 and gradually build up from there.
You have to learn to walk before you can run m8
And most planes have an autopilot and can help you get perfectly lined up.
Have a look at this tutorial i found on youtube......youtube = your friend

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hUI7SJYdQrs

Enjoy your landings

[Joeflyer]

Powerke wrote:
Speed is not the important thing here ....but your decent rate is prolly to high.
Try taking a longer aproach ...or use the ILS to guide you in.

But best advice is to start with smaller aircraft first ....get a Cesna 172 and gradually build up from there.
You have to learn to walk before you can run m8
And most planes have an autopilot and can help you get perfectly lined up.
Have a look at this tutorial i found on youtube......youtube = your friend

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hUI7SJYdQrs

Enjoy your landings

This may or may not be his problem. He mentioned using FSX, so I'm sure he's got FsPX as well....lots of people are blowing tires these
days...not necessarily on hot landings.

[Powerke]

every landing is nothing more than a controled collision with a planet

[Tracker801]

huh
since when do they call it controlled what we do?


Well, the general issue here is to learn how to approach and flare just prior to landing. Read up on Dans posting about the tire blow-out 'problem'
some seem to have.

[Joeflyer]

Powerke wrote:
every landing is nothing more than a controled collision with a planet

Ok, and we'll put this in the "Quotable Quotes" section if Dan ever decides to open such a thread In the meantime, let's focus on the
FSX/FsPX problem here

[KenG]

Joeflyer wrote:
This may or may not be his problem. He mentioned using FSX, so I'm sure he's got FsPX as well....lots of people are blowing tires these
days...not necessarily on hot landings.

If he is blowing tires then most likely he is hitting terra firma too hard

If he is hitting terra firma too hard then there is a problem with his landing technique

Most problems with landings can be traced back to a poor approach set up

Excessive speed is one possible problem on an approach, however in this case the person states that he's Vapp is 150 to 160 KIAS, a little high for a
737-800 but not hot. (135 to 145 general speed range for a 738 {not 737 rated so don't quote the speed as Gospel} + up to 1/2 the gust spread up to
10 knots high end now 155 now use the standard of Vapp is allowed +-0 to +5 KIAS then you have a range of 155 to 160 KIAS.)

If you have the approach speed set, you are on a good 3 degree glideslope and the airplane is set for landing then the last piece is landing. Now for
landing you need lots of visual cues, so if your machine is sputter and stuttering and your fps is in the single digits. Give it up and reduce your
system overhead so that you get smooth frames on landing. Get rid of all of that eye candy and focus on what is important smooth simulator
performance. I am a professional pilot and I cannot pull off a good landing when the simulator is stuttering.

I noticed that the person stated that they pulled 10 degrees for flare. This concerns me with his technique of flaring on landing. Without seeing what
is going on it is very hard to tell, but if someone asked me what pitch I pulled on a flare I could not tell you. My eyeballs are outside the cockpit
taking in as much of the runway environment as possible to gently squeeze off the last bit of energy and set the airplane onto the runway as light as
a feather. (Yea I do it every time, honest. ) I would suggest that you are being too mechanical in your landings. If you are not taking in such
things as your touchdown point, your closure rate to the runway, and the surrounding environmental clues to your descent rate then your what we call
"plopping" the airplane onto the runway. It is akin to those who stop flying a few feet above the runway, close their eyes and hope the airplane will
land. No you are still a pilot until the engines shutdown and you complete the post flight. That means flying the last few feet to the runway with the
same precision as you flew the approach. Landing is a visual activity and you need to look around outside and correct the airplanes visual path. The
flare should cushion the airplane onto the runway.

Overflaring is just as bad as not flaring, or even worse. In this case the pilot flares too much and the airplane climbs slightly. Now the airplane is
even higher above the ground and it is running out of energy. What often happens is the airplane will fall to the runway with a sort of carrier
arrival as opposed to a landing. It is a tooth jarring, passenger screaming ride and considered an unprofessional way to treat an airplane. Everyone
overflares from time to time (with the exception of Joe who I hear has never overflared.) The idea is to catch the situation, level out the airplane
and add energy back in to cushion the landing. Worse case if you overflare, go-around and try again.

So far as the airplane that lands so easy that it lands itself, don't believe the hype. Unless the airplane is equipped with autoland then there is a
pilot working his butt off to make that collision with the earth as controlled as can be. It takes practice and maybe some lessons.

Best thing you can do is take the old 738 out and run some traffic patterns with her (circuits for those in the UK). Yes you can do traffic patterns
in a 737 and concentrate on your setup, approach, and landing. Keep practicing until you get it right. Be sure to defuel to about 50% and kick all the
pax off to keep her in landing weight. If you continue to have major issue there are some flight instruction forums that may be willing to help out or
try joining a VA. Some VAs are very professional and will give professional advice and or training.

Best of luck

[Brian F.]

If you are landing at greater than the default 500 fpm FSPax setting, then you deserve to have your tires blown.

[SkyAirWorld]

Caps Fixed

[SkyAirWorld]

Flying and Landing an airplane is very different to what the manual says...the manual is a guide...but an aircraft is flown by feel... you
need to know the airplane, and it needs to know you.... (in a sim thats probably a little different, but you can get to know it nice and easy)

As ken said, do some touch and go's in a large un-used airport (I reccomend YPTN nice and long, has ATC, and little if any traffic)

Dont fly on exact figures, let go and do some by "feel"

Hope this is all helping

-

and...

KenG wrote:

My eyeballs are outside the cockpit
taking in as much of the runway environment as possible to gently squeeze off the last bit of energy and set the airplane onto the runway
as light as a feather. (Yea I do it every time, honest. )

haha me too Ken

Always smooth...

[Joeflyer]

Well, Meister hasn't responded, so I'm not totally certain he was/is speaking in terms of FSX/FsPX or just plain slamming the aircraft on
the runway. Of course there have been numerous issues with tires being blown out while using the combo above, so I naturally assumed
that is what the new guy was referring to. Obviously if it's the latter case then he should heed everyone's advice, but how about we wait to
see what the gent has to say about it



Post Edited ( 01-06-09 03:11 )

[MEISTER046]

Sorry about the Caps everyone I wasn't paying attention. Ive reduced the speed to 145 knots, and i am using a que from youtube to flare
the nose 3/4 down the runway to make a soft landing. Hasn't seemed to help. Guess I'll have to keep practicing the problem is FSX won't
tell me when i blow a tire, i only blow them in fsPass. In order to practice the landing and know if i would blow a tire or not i have to fly a full
flight. Thanks for the suggestions I'll keep practicing and looking to see if you have different tips.


Jim

[SkyAirWorld]

start a "fake" trial company with a test pilot, do some touch and go's at MTOW (try with just cargo and fuel, keep PAX out of it)