To Autoland or not to Autoland

[Canada_Boy]

Oh, I forgot to mention I have never used auto-land

[Serviceman]

I never use any sort of autoland, for me the entire experience is the landing and the thrill of a perfect flight with me at the stick!

[Edam]

kjevans wrote:

Wow, in the all the time I have been using MS flight sims I have never altered the sim rate.
After reading your post I thought I would try it out.
Well watching the terrain go by is fun for about 30 seconds but michael, how do you cope with radio comms, I have never heard the ATC speaking such
gobble-de-gook. I am afraid I had to reset back to normal speed, interesting though!
Kirk
[/quote]

You turn off ATC until getting close to your destination, depending on your altitude. You do that by TUNING the last center after reaching altitude,
but NOT contacting them. Then you turn on the GPS and NAV buttons. The aircraft will follow the GPS route to the airport until you decide to get ATC
back by correcting your heading, turning on the HDG button and turning off the GPS and NAV button and then contacting the center normally.

The original question was about autoLAND but the discussion went off into autoPILOT.

I always use autopilot and time acceleration unless, like I said, I'm doing a short flight for sight seeing reasons. Some people say that using
acceleration is not realistic, well neither is doing a flight in real time and going out to the supermarket or mowing the lawn while the sim is running.

My main interest is take off and landing.

[JanniCash]

You don't cope with radio at all. Once you're assigned your cruise altitude and on own nav, you wait for the next handover, confirm it but never
contact the next ATC. You can now accelerate all the way until you're about 200 nm from your destination. No ATC will bother you. 200 nm out from
destination slow down to 1x sim rate, tune to the now active ATC and contact. They might try to tell you turn backwards, which you just ignore (don't
answer at all) until the instruction says "proceed own course", which you ACK and you're back on track.

I never said I don't know how to cheat all the way through long haul flights. And sure do I use the autopilot for cruise. The thing is, I like to
"fly", and for me there isn't much of a difference between watching the autopilot and watching a video (you may think different). Sure, doing 1 hour
city-hops (as I prefer) doesn't rack up as many pilot hours as doing 10+ hour intercontinental flights. So what?

After all, it's a game. So the primary goal is entertainment and having a good time. If some autoland feature makes someone happy, so be it.


Jan

[kjevans]

Edam wrote:

kjevans wrote:

Wow, in the all the time I have been using MS flight sims I have never altered the sim rate.
After reading your post I thought I would try it out.
Well watching the terrain go by is fun for about 30 seconds but michael, how do you cope with radio comms, I have never heard the ATC speaking such
gobble-de-gook. I am afraid I had to reset back to normal speed, interesting though!
Kirk

You turn off ATC until getting close to your destination, depending on your altitude. You do that by TUNING the last center after reaching altitude,
but NOT contacting them. Then you turn on the GPS and NAV buttons. The aircraft will follow the GPS route to the airport until you decide to get ATC
back by correcting your heading, turning on the HDG button and turning off the GPS and NAV button and then contacting the center normally.

The original question was about autoLAND but the discussion went off into autoPILOT.

I always use autopilot and time acceleration unless, like I said, I'm doing a short flight for sight seeing reasons. Some people say that using
acceleration is not realistic, well neither is doing a flight in real time and going out to the supermarket or mowing the lawn while the sim is running.

My main interest is take off and landing.[/quote]

Yeah, your right, the topic has wavered a bit but this is interesting to see the many ways that people use MSFS.

Anyway, they say that you learn something new each day and I have thanks to you. I probably will not be using simulation acceleration again as for me
I do lots of short hop flights and tend to pick routes with new to see each time if at all possible.
I didn't think about turning of the ATC as a couple of times when I have forgotten to press the pause button for a toilet break and then found that
coming back to the sim and finding that my IFR flight had been cancelled, I hadn't dared to mess with the ATC.

Many thanks for your response.

Kirk..,

[kjevans]

JanniCash wrote:
You don't cope with radio at all. Once you're assigned your cruise altitude and on own nav, you wait for the next handover, confirm it but never
contact the next ATC. You can now accelerate all the way until you're about 200 nm from your destination. No ATC will bother you. 200 nm out from
destination slow down to 1x sim rate, tune to the now active ATC and contact. They might try to tell you turn backwards, which you just ignore (don't
answer at all) until the instruction says "proceed own course", which you ACK and you're back on track.

I never said I don't know how to cheat all the way through long haul flights. And sure do I use the autopilot for cruise. The thing is, I like to
"fly", and for me there isn't much of a difference between watching the autopilot and watching a video (you may think different). Sure,
doing 1 hour
city-hops (as I prefer) doesn't rack up as many pilot hours as doing 10+ hour intercontinental flights. So what?

After all, it's a game. So the primary goal is entertainment and having a good time. If some autoland feature makes someone happy, so be it.


Jan

Hi Jan,
thanks for the reply and the tips about ATC if I ever try the acceleration again.

For me the best part is also the take-off and landing and I tend to do the short hop flights as you do.
I have just been trying varying proceedures that people have posted to see the difference and to cut a long story short, if anybody wishes to use
autoland, (of the many addons available) then they must be aware that it ain't all that.
I have now tried 4 different versions just for the hell of it and at best the success rate was around 25%. I prefer the true hands on approach to the
decent and landing proceedure, I enjoy the feeling I get when on short finals and the rush when making a good touchdown.
I know, as some have said that, at the of the day it's only a game but I tend to get really engrossed in the whole environment and try my best to make
it as real as possible.
I have just downloaded the FeelThere 737 Pilot in Command, which I am really looking forward to using, of course after reading the massive manual. I
have searched and searched for an aircraft that suits my requirements and this one looks like it might just do the job. PIC seems to be a much more
hands on approach to the whole flying issue in MSFS. It most probably will be a vast change from the standard fs9 737 I currently use.

Thanks to all for your responses, it was really interestng to see the many ways that us simmers do our stuff.

I remember my first ever real world flight in an aircraft, a Cessna 172. It belonged to an ex boss of mine and he decided to take myself and my cousin
out for a flight one saturday. We were so excited. Taking off I could feel the lump in my throat due to excitement and to feel the buffeting for the
airflow on the fuselage through my feet made it seem so real. Then it was time for landing and my ex boss who was always a bit of a joker told us that
this is the bit he found so difficult and took him the longest time to master but this time he was not joking, he was dead serious and I then had a
lump in my throat for a whole other reason!!
We made it though with no major dramas and that to me is what I feel each time I land a plane in MSFS.

Kirk

[Sovek]

haha, try and get the rush with putting a 747-200 right on the numbers, awsome feeling.

[Launchbury]

I read the blog of an airline Airbus captain and he hates using autoland because of how rough the landings are. He says after he
autolands he stays in the cockpit and lets the first officer say goodbye to the passengers when they leave.

As for MSFS I usually disengage AP at the base turn.

[dannyboy2005]

I use Autopilot... When i get to about 8,000ft and on course i switch on the AP and climb... On approach i use A/P even when adjusting
heading to r/w then use APP to land

[kjevans]

Launchbury wrote:
I read the blog of an airline Airbus captain and he hates using autoland because of how rough the landings are. He says after he
autolands he stays in the cockpit and lets the first officer say goodbye to the passengers when they leave.

As for MSFS I usually disengage AP at the base turn.

Good one!
Even the best fall foul.

[gazpode_l]

I also recently downloaded a panel with autoland after struggling bigtime in crosswinds (IE kept getting accused of "dangerous" landings & takeoffs.)

I am experimenting alot with the approach part of the autopilot but have not once managed to get the aircraft to follow the glideslope. is this
something which is done manually?

I found using autoland that landings are pretty hefty, but this maybee because it disables about 500ft from the runway? I've seen a prg
called "flightdeck" on discovery channel and professional airline pilots usually set the approach up using the computers and then perhaps fly the
last 30 secs of the approach using the stick.

regards
gary

[JetBlueInflight]

I thought you only use ILS in bad weather

Pilots use the approach function all the time when there is an ILS. Often the autopilot isn't turned off until a few hundred feet off the
ground. In real life (not the fun of simming), why make your job more difficult when the plane will do it for you?

I read the blog of an airline Airbus captain and he hates using autoland because of how rough the landings are. He says after he
autolands he stays in the cockpit and lets the first officer say goodbye to the passengers when they leave.

Autolands on the Airbus tend to be hard for the most part because the terrain level is set below the actual terrain level (to ensure that the
a/c actually touches the ground). Because of this, the aircraft actually thinks the ground is farther away than it really is and bumps into the
ground. I've had pilots land a rough landing and then try to tell me it was an autoland so they can blame it on the aircraft. Cute idea, but
not so much.

The autoland feature on the Airbus is a great feature because if the airport has the equipment for it, it allows you to decsend down on
approach while everyone else is circling around waiting for better visability. It may be a rough landing, but it's always better than a holding
pattern!!

[Garbagecan]

Pilots use the approach function all the time when there is an ILS. Often the autopilot isn't turned off until a few hundred feet off the
ground. In real life (not the fun of simming), why make your job more difficult when the plane will do it for you?

that is very true. Real life commercial pilots use every aiding system available onboard to make the entire flight process as safe as
possible. You are dealing with lots of lifes and a multi million $ expensive aircraft which is not your own property. So why would anybody
mentally healthy and responsible put this at stake?

However Pilots still need to know how to fly and land in case the a/p system failed, but they study and practise the handling of such dire
situations on a simulator.
I heard once from a person who was a military pilot that they always land the fighters without a/p engaged but again this just for training
purposes and i was told that landing a small agile fighter jet manually is nothing compared to the idiotic attempt to land a heavy fat beast
with the maneuverability of a mammoth tree.

Anyways on FS i make extensive use of the a/p functions because i think they are there for a reason and not just to impress the cabin
crew or passengers


Victor

[kjevans]

gazpode_l wrote:
I also recently downloaded a panel with autoland after struggling bigtime in crosswinds (IE kept getting accused of "dangerous" landings
& takeoffs.)

I am experimenting alot with the approach part of the autopilot but have not once managed to get the aircraft to follow the glideslope. is this
something which is done manually?

I found using autoland that landings are pretty hefty, but this maybee because it disables about 500ft from the runway? I've seen a prg
called "flightdeck" on discovery channel and professional airline pilots usually set the approach up using the computers and then perhaps
fly the
last 30 secs of the approach using the stick.

regards
gary

Hi Gary,

when you have been given your runway for landing by ATC first find out whether this rwy has ILS by checking your map/flight plan. Then ATC wiil give
you your final vector instructions.
If the rwy has ILS then dial this frequency into your NAV1 and press the NAV1 button on your radio stack to make it active.
I also as a matter of course I dial the ILS heading into the COURSE selector so I don't forget it.
When between 20-25 out form the airport just press the APP button on your autopilot, make sure though that the navigation selector is set to NAV and
not GPS and I also deselect the HEADING button.
Don't be afraid if it looks like nothing is happening for a while, eventually the aircraft will make several turns and course corrections to align
itself with the runway.
As the aircraft nears the airport it will start to decend, you will need to control the speed and flaps.
At somewhere between 500ft and minimums turn off autopilot and land yourself.

I have tried many different autoland features and they all pretty much do the same thing which does end in a firm/hard touchdown and you will get
hammered points wise by FSP.

It is much better to land the aircraft on your own, like many people have pointed out, by all means use the approach button as this is what real world
airline pilots use, (as long as it is an ILS approach) every now and again though have a go flying VFR on a non ILS approach just to keep your hand in.

Kirk..,

p.s. The best landing I had leaving everything fully automated, while I was reviewing autoland features, was -948 ft/min - (pretty rough eh!)

Just now with out any autoland and turning off approach and autopilot at approx 400ft, was -40.8 ft/min - (kiss).

A marked difference wouldn't you say.

[JetBlueInflight]

I heard once from a person who was a military pilot that they always land the fighters without a/p engaged but again this just for
training
purposes and i was told that landing a small agile fighter jet manually is nothing compared to the idiotic attempt to land a heavy fat beast
with the maneuverability of a mammoth tree.

When a first officer is doing his IOE, he is required to turn off the autopilot at the top of the approach and fly it in (the Airbus alarms are very
loud and you can hear when they click it off from the front galley). Obviously this is just for training purposes due to the fact that he has to
prove he is able to fly an approach manually in the event that all else fails. Other than that like Garbagecan stated....You're flying in a
vehicle worth millions that's basically rented out to you (except you don't pay the rent) and you have hundreds of people on board relying
on you, and your license is on the line. No need to risk all of that so you can play with the stick and have some fun.

I once did a flight where the AP was INOP and the captain had to fly a 3 hour flight manually. Let's just say he didn't find it fun.