Flap spee limit exceeded.

[mehim]

Hi All,

Great program been using it for a while but have an issue with flap speed limitations for some reason it keeps penalizing me and I can't
figure out why, here is last flight data:

FSACars report:

20:53 Flaps:15º at 137 Knots
20:56 Flaps:30º at 108 Knots
20:57 Flaps:40º at 82 Knots

Aircraft.cfg:

flaps-position.1 = 15, 165
flaps-position.2 = 30, 130
flaps-position.3 = 40, 130

FSpassengers:

-You have exceeded the flap speed limit by 7.67kts (-76)

Now the only thing I can figure is that I had a 14Knot crosswind coming from 11'oclock but evening adding 14Knots to any of those figures
does not exceed the flap limitiations, have any ideas what's going on here?

Thanks,

Tim

[Leftcoaster]

Are you certain that the flap speed violation occurred during landing?

FsP cannot tell the difference between a landing approach and climb out and particularly if light on take off it's fairly easy to accelerate before
getting the aircraft cleaned up and stable in climb. If you're not adhering to departure procedures or climb limits for the aircraft in use,
exceeding limits or missing speed targets is probably pretty common. Remember that you're alone in FS and that the take off/climb phase of
any flight probably sees the greatest work load.

I had the same sort of problems with the HJG Caravelle VIR; getting persistent flap-speed violations using FsP but eventually I traced the
problem to sloppy management of the climb out and accelerating passed flap retraction speed rather than problems with the approach and
landing. After unsticking, the plane accelerates very fast and it was a simple matter to overspeed before cleaning up the wings and throttling
back to climb power. The cure lay in targeting the correct pitch at V2 + 10 KIAS and then establishing a clean climb out at 150 KIAS as per the
Caravelle flight manual.

Of course the numbers for each aircraft will be different but if you think that you're nailing the landings correctly, look at another phase of the
flight where the problem might originate.

Just a thought.

-C

[mehim]

An excellent thought at that I will check that on my flight tonight!

Thanks m8, great explanation.

Tim

[mehim]

19:36 Gear Up: 130 Knots
19:36 Flaps:15º at 130 Knots
19:36 Flaps:Up at 137 Knots


This is takeoff.. Hmm

Full LOG:

Flight IATA:CXA172
Pilot Number:172
Company ICAO:CXA
Aircraft Type:PC12/P
PAX:5
Aircraft Registration:C-CXAP
Departing Airport: LFMN
Destination Airport: LFBO
Alternate Airport:LFKM
Online: VATSIM
Route:LFMN LANKO G7 MTG Y25 FJR LFBO
Flight Level:24000
No Slew and time accel
19:06 Zero fuel Weight: 6809 Lbs, Fuel Weight: 1358 Lbs
19:26 Parking Brakes off
19:26 Com1 Freq=126.15
19:36 V2= 127 Knots
19:36 Take-off
19:36 Take off Weight: 8123 Lbs
19:36 Wind: 090º @ 007 Knots Heading: 045º
19:36 POS N43º 39´ 18´´ E007º 12´ 50´´
19:36 N11 99 N12 00
19:36 Gear Up: 130 Knots
19:36 Flaps:15º at 130 Knots
19:36 Flaps:Up at 137 Knots
19:49 TOC
19:49 Fuel Weight: 1199 Lb
19:51 Wind:319º@020 Knots Heading: 261º Ground Speed: 233 Knots Altitude 23740 ft
20:06 Wind:315º@023 Knots Heading: 286º Ground Speed: 232 Knots Altitude 23841 ft
20:21 Wind:315º@023 Knots Heading: 289º Ground Speed: 228 Knots Altitude 23897 ft
20:30 TOD
20:30 Fuel Weight: 940 Lb
20:36 Wind:321º@025 Knots Heading: 269º Ground Speed: 228 Knots Altitude 17667 ft
20:36 Com1 Freq=122.80
20:51 Wind:290º@012 Knots Heading: 266º Ground Speed: 198 Knots Altitude 4028 ft
20:53 Gear Down: 152 Knots
20:53 Flaps:15º at 137 Knots
20:56 Flaps:30º at 108 Knots
20:57 Flaps:40º at 82 Knots
20:59 TouchDown:Rate -85 ft/min Speed: 62 Knots
20:59 Land
20:59 Wind:249º@015 Knots
20:59 Heading: 318º
20:59 Flight Duration: 01:23
20:59 Landing Weight: 7620 Lbs
20:59 POS N43º 37´ 36´´ E001º 21´ 49´´
21:05 Parking brakes on
21:05 Block to Block Duration: 01:39
21:05 Final Fuel: 800 Lbls
21:05 Spent Fuel: 557 Lbls
21:05 Flight Length: 285 NM
21:05 TOD Land Length: 87 NM



Post Edited ( 09-19-13 20:11 )

[Leftcoaster]

Dumb question perhaps, am not familiar with the PC-12 but did you take off at Flaps 30?

With a retraction/deployment time of 30-seconds is it possible that the flaps were in transit in excess of 130 KIAS and this brief period
triggered the excess speed violation?

It looks as if it would take some 45-seconds to go from Flaps 30 through Flaps up but if you used only Flaps 15 this should not be an issue.

Edit:
Please disregard the above in RED and check the PC-12 aircraft.cfg to see the actual flap deployment time. My understanding of how FsP works (very far from perfect) is that it will penalize you instantly so you needed only one or two seconds where you exceeded 130 KIAS with the flaps still retracting to the Flaps 1 setting.

The 7-knot FsP violation and your 137 knot ACARS speeds are probably not entirely coincidental.

If not, I am out of ideas, sorry.

-C



Post Edited ( 09-19-13 21:43 )

[mehim]

No, I take off at flaps 15° as per the checklist and mainly large airports so no need for 30. FLap limit for 15 is 165knots in the aircraft cfg. You
may be on the right track it does take a long time for both gear and flaps to retract on the pc12 I may be exceeding that speed around their. I
will experiment with this further.

I thank you very much for your time and input.

Tim