1 heck of a nooby question:

[Ceemosp]

On which type did you do your PPL - I did it on a Cessna 152 and my first landing attempt in the Beech resulted in a looooooooooong
flare. I didn't imagine how different high-wing and low-wing aircrafts behave during flare

[Joeflyer]

For PPL, it was a 1959 Cessna 150 The one that still had the venturi on the right side of the airplane It was a sweet flying airplane
though and cheap as hell to fly. The guy who owned the Cessna also owned the Six, an old twin Beech and that V tail Bonanza.

[Ceemosp]

Hehehe....the one with the big flaps bar in the middle....?

[Joeflyer]

Yep, that's the one

[Joeflyer]

Yep, that's the one

[Captain_Smith]

But, how do you get it so it has the pink triangle and the box and lines?

It has it on the Cold Winter Landing kiosk flight, but not on the other ones. :S

[detpilot]

lol, hate to intrude on the conversation, but this comment:

Ummm....the speed tape is programmed by the fs9 designer of the panel so it's not an idication if he messed it up

it's programmed to match the actual aircraft, based on the same weights, conditions, flap settings, etc, it would be the same as the actual aircraft.
Remember, this is the LDS 767, it was programmed using actual aircraft data, and by 767 pilots.

Also, it is never advisable to fly 3 dots above the glide slope, as you probably know, the glide slope has inaccuracies above the glide slope (ie.
ghost signals, etc), which is why we intercept from below, not above it. If you were following a heavy, number 1. you should be appropriately spaced
by ATC, (5 miles or so? not entirely sure), and number 2., since wake vortices descend, if you were on the glide slope, you'd be fine, but 1/2 dot, or
1 dot above it would be more than sufficient, unless you happen to be landing in a tailwind which would blow the vortex closer into the runway
(meaning it is higher for a set distance from the runway).

In any event, it is my professional opinion that runibl's approach was perfect, aside from the one dot too high thing, that is



Post Edited ( 12-22-06 07:21 )

[Ceemosp]

Go back to start....do NOT collect....

1. About the speed tape: It only shows what it has been programmed to do. I was NOT referring this to the 767 BUT to the comment that
one can rely on the speed tape. IRL that is the case...in FS9 it is NOT - at least not always. So my comment stands

2. About the above glideslope.

(5 miles or so? not entirely sure)

Seperation between non-heavy aircraft is 3NM unless special procedures apply.
Non-heavy following heavy - separation is 6 NM
Heavy following Heavy - separation 3 NM unless stated differently.

which is why we intercept from below, not above it

not quite.....the inaccuracies are also present below the glideslope (ground echos, interference) and they are not the only reason why you
intercept from below. The other reason is that when you intercept from below, you can maintain level flight until intercept and "see the
needle settle in" - thus you don't have to force the plane "onto" the glideslope.

Please note, in my reply you quoted, I stated OFTEN - not ALWAYS. If you are in a GenAv plane and filed in by ATC behind a Heavy on an
approach, that where you often end up. Inaccuracies ABOVE the glideslope won't kill you (in contrast when being way below) they will at
most result in a GA

You can not tell in advance how far above the glideslope you will end up when avoiding wake turbulence as this also very much depends
on the other aircraft and where he touches down. See the recomendations from FAA in this respect.


FAA Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM), Feb. 19, 2004 edition (extracts):

7-3-5 Wake Turbulence: Operations Problem Areas

a. A wake encounter can be catastrophic.

b. AVOID THE AREA BELOW AND BEHIND THE GENERATING AIRCRAFT, ESPECIALLY AT LOW ALTITUDE WHERE EVEN A
MOMENTARY WAKE ENCOUNTER COULD BE HAZARDOUS (all caps in original).

7-3-6 Vortex Avoidance Procedures

a. When any doubt exists about maintaining safe separation distances between aircraft during approaches, pilots should ask the control
tower for updates on separation distances and aircraft groundspeed.

b. The following vortex avoidance procedures are recommended for the various situations:

1. Landing behind a larger aircraft - same runway. Stay at or above the larger aircraft's final approach flight path - note its touchdown point
- land beyond it.

2. Landing behind a larger aircraft - when parallel runway is closer than 2,500 feet. Consider possible drift to your runway. Stay at or above
the larger aircraft's final approach flight path - note its touchdown point.

Source: http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/AIM/index.htm


There is also a really nice series from the FAA that will cover most aspects of flying and 'landing'
http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/libvi...px?id=6848


And finally: I stated before that I didn't criticize Runi's approach but was just utterly amazed about the low approach speeds of a 767 in
contrast to other aircrafts like EMB-170, where you shoot for 145-148 kts as final approach speeds (depending on weight).

Regards
Carsten



Post Edited ( 12-23-06 14:16 )

[Ceemosp]

Double post



Post Edited ( 12-23-06 14:15 )

[detpilot]

Point taken ,

I was just pointing out that 3 dots above the glideslope is not nessecery. Indeed, I too would much rather be above the glide slope than below it,
however, as you quoted, the aim states:

1. Landing behind a larger aircraft - same runway. Stay at or above the larger aircraft's final approach flight path - note its
touchdown point
- land beyond it.

(My emphasis added), At or above hardly dictates being 3 dots above the glide slope, 1/2 to one dot should cover it, legally, you could be on the
glide slope (assuming the heavy pilot flew the glideslope), because that would fulfill the "at" part... that's closer than I'd want to cut it, but
vortices do descend (so they tell us ), so you should be good. And again I don't pretend to fly the 767 (or any airliner for that matter), I assume
you fly the EMB-170, if so I am not trying to pretend I know more about the operating procedures of either aircraft. My experience is limited to light
singles and twins, but procedure applies to all of them. Merry Christmas!