Question for the ‘real world’ pilots out there

[Dutch64]

I just wonder, what is it you like about flight simming? Is it maybe you can try other planes than the one(s) you fly in real, or would you like to
check out some airports you’ve never been before?
Just really curious and I hope some of you might reply.

(I did do a search but could not find a topic about this. If it still does exist however, pillory me…. )

[SWAFO]

It gives me a chance to relax, and practice away from work. My primary love is aviation, and flight simulation is an extension of that love. I
can do things in the sim that I can't do in real life, I can practice failures, I can go all around the world, and I can do flights that I do in the
real world, and see what to expect, etc.

It's always been a hobby of mine (flight simulation, and general flying). Never really thought about why I do it, I just do!

[omarza]

Brad... while we are on the topic of asking real pilots... can I quickly ask something...

Its regarding the PMDG's FMC... how exactly does the descent work from your perspective... meaning at what point do you initiate the descent and what steps do you take... I also dont know if im doinf it wrong as I tend to take control on my descend instead of letting the FMC do it as for some reason im having a problem or two getting it to work satisfactory when the I try to let the FMC handle the decend.

Also I tend to descend at around 2000fpm (when descending from CRZ to FL140) but was wondering what your airline use in general.

Oops forgot also to ask... I want to takeoff from a shortish runway... FAWB... what would the best flap settings etc be or should I rather ask what is the shortest recommend runway for takeoff with the 737-700.



Post Edited ( 09-17-05 01:08 )

[HH-60CC]

Dutch: Flight Simming is what got me into real flying in the first place. I've been simming for about 5 years now, it wasn't until a buddy of mine
took me up on a flight around Okinawa when I got hooked. From "clear prop" to pulling the mixture when i park, having a good flight or cruddy flight,
i'm always having a blast. It's all thanks to flight sim!

- Mike

[SWAFO]

Good question Omarza. Here at SWA we don't use the VNAV mode of the autopilot (or the AT for that matter), so we manually commence
descent. Just some quick speed info for you: Normally, we'll descent at cruise speed until reaching FL260, at which point we'll maintain
280KTS, or the calculated ECON descent speed. Note that everything I'm mentioning is just a rough guideline. In the airline business,
there are LOTS of variables.

Usually, we'll use the FMC PATH DESCENT mode. ATC likes to clear us to descend prior to our calculated T/D (Top of Descent), so we'll
descend at 1000ft/min until reaching our T/D waypoint. When we're at the T/D calculated by the FMC, we'll descend at the rate calculated
by the FMC path descent mode. This information can be accessed in the FMC Descent page. You'll also note that the EHSI will display a
scale with information regarding your altitude above/below the altitude currently requested by the FMC so that you can arrive at your
waypoints at the correct altitude. Normally, if you follow the descent rate requested by the FMC, you should arrive at your waypoints at the
planned altitudes (displayed in the LEGS page of the FMC). Unfortunately this doesn't work very well in FS9 with the PMDG 737, so I
normally find myself maintaining a constant 2000ft/min descent unless I need to change it for any reason.

As a side note, descent rates from the top of descent are usually steeper (2,000-3,000FPM), with the descent slowly tapering off to
around 1,000FPM near the end of the descent. This is to ease the transition into Class B airspace, or the destinations airspace, in which
speed restrictions are usually imposed (below the 250KT speed limit in effect below 10,000FT). The normal speed limit within Class B
airspace is 220KTS (for a 737 under 117,000LBS GW. If you're over 117K, you add 10KTS to all speeds).

I hope I answered your question, I've got a few buddies over for dinner, and we've had a few beers. I'm a bit cloudy, and hope my
message makes some sense. If not, let me know what it's lacking, and I'll clarify it when I'm sober! Until then

[silo]

I've always been in love with airplanes and aviation in general. My parents use to tell me stories of when I was 3 years old and I would act
like a crazy monkey everytime I see an airplane. They used to take me to the airport on weekends sometimes and apparently I would
prefer that to any other normal baby activities! Sometimes I wonder if this karma thing could really be right about this previous life thing!
Anyway, enough about that...as soon as I had my first pc, the first thing I loaded on was FS4 or 5, not sure exactly. Soon after I started
taking real lessons at the city airport, In Napoli Italy, which is not that small I'd say...now they even land 747's. Very nice commercial traffic.
I finished with some italian licenses and got the hell outta there. Moved to L.A. and got my USA licenses and now I'm studying to become
instructor.

What was the question, again? Oh, I see...what I wanted to say before I got lost in my youth memories is that if it wasn't for flight
simulator I prolly would've never even start flying for real! Now that I am some kind of a pilot, everytime I have a chance I fly for real but it's not always possible. So FS9 keeps me from becoming a crazy monkey until the next real flight! I also used it a lot to train for my IFR and to kinda keep current...
And since it will probably still take long time until I can fly a real 737, FS9 keeps my dream alive and burning !!!



Post Edited ( 09-17-05 02:50 )

[Dutch64]

Thanks for all the replies, really nice to read it all! Also some nice info about descend (though we have to wait for the sober version ),
really good to read about the procedures in real life too.
For myself, yes, simming for years now already and getting more and more addicted to it. Next year i will start my first flying lessons but i'm
afraid i'm too "old" to make it as a pilot on a commercial airliner Maybe in a next life hehe
Martin

[omarza]

Thanks Brad your answer helps alot .. i think I added to my post above as you were answering probably and therefore you didnt see my last question...
regarding the short take-off. I'm thinking of using FAWB as my main hub but it has a short runway and I dont know if it will be practical. The
Airport elevation is 4095ft with the main runway 5992ft long. Take-off weights I can adjust to make provision for the ideal situation if needed. I
took off there with the 737-700 but it was touch and go. Any advice would be recommended as well as maybe some tips regarding short take-off flaps
settings etc. I looked at the performance charts etc but am wondering what the impact are in FS9 vs that of the real world. I played a bit with flap
settings but found that sometimes in FS9 increasing flaps reduces rate of speed increase and not sure if FS9 simulates these factors correctly atm.
Do you also use the indicated trim settings religiously or do you adjust around it a bit on shorter runways to try and get an ideal trim setting for
the runway yuu are using.

I know its a mouth full im asking regarding short take-offs with the 737 but wanted to get an experienced opiniun regarding this as you mentioned
before.. everything in aviation is not cast in stone and I would like to learn a bit more and try to understand the 737 a bit better than the
information supplied on pages that came with the PMDG 737.

If I enjoy an Aircraft I try to get a bit more out of it from a realistic point of view and i'm enjoying the PMDG 737 and see myself flying it alot
together with the DF727... so I hope you dont mind me asking. Some people say the PMDG is an easy aircraft... I might be stupid as I dont see that...
thats if you try to get the most out of it and learn the aircraft and systems properly.

Thanks again for your time and advice

[SWAFO]

The PMDG CAN be an easy aircraft. It depends if you fly it more "casually", or "hard-core" (as close to realism as possible). In the PMDG,
I can fire up the engines, not worry about most other settings, and away I can fly (with a hell of a lot of warning lights though). Naturally,
this isn't the case in reality, however it doesn't have to be the case with the PMDG if you fly like you're flying a real jetliner. I can taxi around
an airport in FS at 80KTS if I wanted to... obviously, I can't do this in real life. I try to SIMULATE real life, so I won't taxi above 25KTS.
Normal taxi speed is around 20KTS. Anyway, enough about that... I find myself getting off topic quite a bit.

On to your question about short field takeoff's: You're flying the 737-700 (I'm assuming), so I'll be offering advice on that version, and
takeoffs with runways less than 6000FT (keep in mind, the 737 is specified for a minimum takeoff length of 5500FT... according to the
manufacturer, we should be able to takeoff in most conditions WITHIN 5500FT.). Since you're flying the 737-700, you can use a variety of
takeoff flap settings. We don't have these many options with the earlier 737's. They are: 1, 5, 10, 15, and 25. So you see, we have lots of
options for varying conditions (one thing I love about the -700, it's flexibility in multiple areas).

Here at SWA (all my recommendations are based on our procedures), the shortest runway we'll regularly operate out of is 1L/19R at
SNA. It's just about 5700' long. Normally, we'll use a high flap setting for increased lift (usually flap 15; flap 25 produces LOTS of drag,
and shouldn't normally be used. It all depends on wind conditions, weight, etc. Technically, flap 15 should get us airborne even a little
quicker than flap 25; due to the drag created). If we're very light, we can afford more drag on takeoff, and thus will use higher flap
settings. This should make sense. If we're heavy, we're already going to have a slower than usual acceleration, so a slightly lower flap
setting is preferable (this also applies at LONG runways when flap 1 is used). That should cover flap use at short runways.

Now, the main thing we need is MAXIMUM engine thrust. We'll use the highest approved FMC thrust rating, with no derates what so ever.
Typically, we'll use the lowest thrust necessary (between 85-90% N1 if possible based on runway length, weight, etc.), however on short
runways we can't waste a single drop of thrust. For this reason, we'll typically make a BLEEDS OFF takeoff for shorter runways (as well
as using a non-derated maximum computed thrust). During the bleeds off takeoff, we'll use the APU to supply cabin air and
pressurization. Normal packs and bleeds configuration is normally initiated ASAP after takeoff, however no sooner than the initial flap
retraction at 1000' AAE (above airport elevation). During this condition, no thrust is diverted for the purpose of pack use or other bleed air
use, and we have the most effecient profile possible.


I hope this answer helps (it's more sober than the last ), and if you've got any more questions, you know I'll answer them

By the way, I was looking through the FOM for information on a short-field takeoff, and couldn't find any. I haven't used a runway less than
6000' in a month or so, so I need to brush up on those skills. If the FOM covers anything that I didn't mention here, I'll let you know

[omarza]

Thanks alot for that answer as it helped a lot and is also very interesting. I try to fly as close as possible to real life and therefore all this
little questions. You were right in assuming im using the 700 version. I know ill have more questions as time passes and do appreciate the answers
you give as its very informative and it also increases my enjoyment in FS9... knowing more about the real life procedures as well as the aircraft one
flies is really joyful... even if FS9 sometimes doesnt simulate certain things. Thanks again

[AeroJim]

I've talked to about 50 instructors through out my real world flying experience, they said that ever since the realease of the more recent
Flight Sim's, FS7 on to be honest, they find that guys come up to the airport for their first time wanting lessons, the instructors say that
they can tell the difference between a simmer and non-simmer, beacuse the simmers can already hold the plane straight and level,
know when and how to use trim, etc. the non-simmers start from scratch (not dissing non-simmers), but thats what i hear.

[SWAFO]

omarza wrote:
Thanks alot for that answer as it helped a lot and is also very interesting. I try to fly as close as possible to real life and therefore all this
little questions. You were right in assuming im using the 700 version. I know ill have more questions as time passes and do appreciate
the answers
you give as its very informative and it also increases my enjoyment in FS9... knowing more about the real life procedures as well as the
aircraft one
flies is really joyful... even if FS9 sometimes doesnt simulate certain things. Thanks again

Glad I could help If you need any more help, I'm here!