EDITING POINTS

[Ryanamur]

zappie wrote:


Hi Phil, I was about 100m short of the runway at about 50ft when the shots hit... no time to do a declare emergency.. ie too much going on
flying the plane... the programme hits you if you don't declare an emergency, but is the rule there that if you enter a war zone you
automatically declare an emergency?? I don't think so... planes fly in and out of real airports around the world and don't declare an
emergency unless there really is one... its a catch 22 with this one...damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Hi Dan,

This is the problem. He was shoot at in the very final phase of landing. During that phase, you concentrate only on one thing: getting the aircraft
into the ground safely and generaly, you wouldn't bother with declaring an emergency until on the ground or after you carried out the missed approach.

In this case, Zappie did the right thing by landing his plane and not going around.

However, by landing, he was no longer able to declare an emergency in FsP and could not receive the bonus for properly handling the emergency.

In a future release, would it be possible to include an exception for emergencies that declare themselves on short-final... you can land the plane
without declaring an emergency but you have to squack 7500 before you leave the runway (since you can't declare an emergency on the ground).

Phil

[DanSteph]

he did get the bonus for the emergencies it was 250 points. (+50 for safe landing in dangerous area)
he didn't get the bonus for DECLARING the emergencies but that's life...he wasn't penalised
for not doing so. I do agree It would be unfair to be penalised for not doing so but it isn't the case.

taken the report I think personnaly that "good" and -100 points is fair the gear were near collapsing,
sustained damage and it was near ending really bad for no acceptable reason other than loosing
focus from the important things in this dangerous phase.

Sorry with such minor problem before landing I don't think he performed in a manner
that would deserve a lot of points. In cat III with autopilot the plane would have made a kiss landing
without any problem. I cannot reward a pilot that do really worse than an automatic system.

In real crash report even if the pilot were disturbed by other things the main culprit often remain the pilot
typicall case: 13 January 1969 a DC8 crashed because the crew was busy with a
landing gear light problem:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The aircraft was on approach to 07R when it crashed into Santa Monica Bay 6 miles short of the runway. The fuselage broke into 3 pieces one of which floated for 20 hours. [...] The crew was preoccupied with a landing gear light problem. Lack of crew coordination and inadequate monitoring of aircraft position which resulted in an unplanned descent into the water.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dan



Post Edited ( 07-29-05 13:49 )

[zappie]

DanSteph wrote:


Sorry with such minor problem before landing I don't think he performed in a manner
that would deserve a lot of points. In cat III with autopilot the plane would have made a kiss landing
without any problem. I cannot reward a pilot that do really worse than an automatic system.

Dan

I guess I have to disagree with you, and leave it at that... in my view, saving passengers is more important than $$$, and because, in this
simulated situation, I saved passengers, the aircraft was HARDLY FLYABLE on the short-final.. Maybe your simulation is right tho...
airlines think more of $$$ than anything else. So what if it was a heavy landing... so what???? didn't crash it, didn't kill anyone... thats all
good in my book. Anyhow, you won't budge on that, and you are the designer, so lets just leave it at that.

But anyhow, back to my original question at the beginning of the thread. I'd like to edit the penalty point allocation... is this possible?
Given that I have purchased the programme, I would like to adjust it in the way that I think it should be (and for nobody else hehe!).

Thanks Dan.

[pagir]

I'm not sure it would be fair to edit that much the "rules system"...

It's okay to be able to disable some penalties, but it's not so fair to change the penalty (or the bonus!!!) point allocation. This software can
be used in VA... everybody must share the same rules.

I know you purchased the software, but I suppose you purchased other softwares too... Sometimes you will be able to modulate the rules
but I don't think you should be allowed to "modulate" that much...

This said, I share a part of your opinion... Maybe 50 pts for is not enough bonus for dangerous area... But I share Dan's opinion: you
nearly crashed... I think this heavy penalty is justified...

Anyway...
Dangerous area: 50pts
Nearly crash: -400pts

Adrenaline: priceless

Pagir

[zappie]

hehe yeah, NEARLY crashed, but didn't.... cheated of points... many; landed safely..... of course!...... using FSPassengers seriously??
Jury's out on that... nice principle, but flawed... nonetheless I guess its all fun anyhow!! so lemme see if i can really crash it hehe without
trying... thats gotta be priceless haha.

[nevinch]

It seems to me that declaring an emergency involves not just communication btwn the pilot and ATC but it also involves the mobilization
of emergency services and a whole host of other contingencies. Therefore, it's a ridiculous notion to declare an emergency 50 ft above
the runway as no one would be able to even react to your mayday anyhow.

However, if you're going to fly an Airbus into Iran I'm almost positive the real world pilots receive some form of danger pay. As a career
pilot surely they must receive some compensation for performing such a dangerous duty. I know US Armed Forces get an extra danger
pay bonus on their ELS statements every month when deployed to a combat zone...why wouldn't regular civilian pilots? Of course that
might vary by airline but for the sake of argument what if FsP assumes the airline you fly for does compensate with danger pay?

What about this idea........ why not have FsP add an entry into your financial report? If flying in a war zone you get X amount of money
(danger pay)....if something bad happens such as what Mr. Zappie experienced you get an additional danger pay bonus (IF, you survive).
So, for example when flying out of or into a danger zone you get say $500 as a flat rate danger pay bonus. And while on your trip someone
decides to empty an AK into your fuselage 50 ft above the runway and you survive that albeit a busted landing gear you get a bonus of say
$20000. This of course is only a small downpayment on fixing your landing gear Zappie, but the situation will vary and next time if you
kiss the runway you will realize a sizeable profit.

Anyways, just food for thought. Chew on it.

Chuck

[nem]

It seems to me that declaring an emergency involves not just communication btwn the pilot and ATC but it also involves the mobilization
of emergency services and a whole host of other contingencies. Therefore, it's a ridiculous notion to declare an emergency 50 ft above
the runway as no one would be able to even react to your mayday anyhow.

Is it? (Yeah, I changed my mind on this again. )
If you get shot at shortly before landing, you just hear something go boom. You don't know what exactly happened, you don't know what might happen
after touchdown, you just know something is wrong. In an regular airliner like the A300 there are two people in the cockpit. One is preoccupied with
bringing the bird down, and rightly so. Granted. But the other would (I hope) get on the mike right there and then and tell the tower about the
situation, because IF something bad happens after touchdown the seconds (or minutes) between emergency services mobilized right after the bullets hit
or mobilized at a later time can make the difference in regard to the pax' health and well-being.

So I'd still say that it wouldn't be all that unrealistic to just hit Ctrl+Shift+M when you hear something go boom, regardless if in the final stages
of landing or not.

[zappie]

nem wrote:

In an regular airliner like the A300 there are two people in the cockpit. One is preoccupied with
bringing the bird down, and rightly so. Granted. But the other would (I hope) get on the mike right there and then and tell the tower about
the.

Interesting point of view, however your argument is flawed. Its only me sitting here at my computor (no-one... virtual or otherwise is sitting
next to me), therefore, i'm the one thats flying the plane and don't have time to make the call, thus no-one can do it, because the co-pilot is
non-existent... he's only a voice thats programmed to tell me to turn of landing lights and reset the alt passing FL180.....

Solution, build something into the programme along the lines of.... when you get hit by bullets that have a detrimental affect on VITAL
systems (ie electrical failure, hydraulics... why not programme our friendly virtual co-pilot to automatically declare the emergency... solves
all problems! as you put it, the pilot (ie me) is too busy trying to save everyone's lives and get the aircraft down.. let the virtual copilot do
the other stuff.



Post Edited ( 07-30-05 14:38 )

[nem]

zappie wrote:
Interesting point of view, however your argument is flawed. Its only me sitting here at my computor (no-one... virtual or otherwise is sitting
next to me), therefore, i'm the one thats flying the plane and don't have time to make the call

I thought we had that one covered already - I don't see the probem in hitting one itsybitsy key combination, no matter what else I'm busy with in FS.

Of course, maybe if I flew through a warzone for the first time, get hit close before touchdown, I'd get it wrong too and not manage to declare the
emergency either. Well, then I'd know better for the next time this happens and move on, I guess.

[pagir]

nevinch wrote:
[...]
However, if you're going to fly an Airbus into Iran I'm almost positive the real world pilots receive some form of danger pay. As a career
pilot surely they must receive some compensation for performing such a dangerous duty. I know US Armed Forces get an extra danger
pay bonus on their ELS statements every month when deployed to a combat zone...why wouldn't regular civilian pilots? Of course that
might vary by airline but for the sake of argument what if FsP assumes the airline you fly for does compensate with danger pay?

What about this idea........ why not have FsP add an entry into your financial report? If flying in a war zone you get X amount of money
(danger pay)....if something bad happens such as what Mr. Zappie experienced you get an additional danger pay bonus (IF, you survive).
So, for example when flying out of or into a danger zone you get say $500 as a flat rate danger pay bonus. And while on your trip someone
decides to empty an AK into your fuselage 50 ft above the runway and you survive that albeit a busted landing gear you get a bonus of say
$20000. This of course is only a small downpayment on fixing your landing gear Zappie, but the situation will vary and next time if you
kiss the runway you will realize a sizeable profit.

Anyways, just food for thought. Chew on it.

Chuck

Hey!

You got extra money for landing in dangerous zone:

Here the line in the zappie's flight record:

War Area Bonus: +$12,213 (11% max war level)

So I can't see your point on this one... (But maybe you didn't see this line either )

Pagir

[nevinch]

LOL....there I go trying to reinvent the wheel....well hey I'm glad it's in there then!!!