Arrival Time

[SWAFO]

Everyone's going to have their preference. If both are implemented (with an option for switching) everyone's happy!

[silo]

I agree that both methods should be available and maybe one could choose its preference in the configuration menu of FsP. How hard
that would be to implement in FsP, as a programming point of view it's another story. But if GMT was already present before it might be a
little easier.

What I'm having hard time understanding though, is the arrival tolerance. IMHO it should be a little more flexible. I tried to enter my arrival
time once and I see that you are supposed to arrive as close as possible to the estimated one to get the maximum points. I think you
should get penalty if you arrive from 3 minutes late or more. Most people don't really care if you are 30 secs or a couple of minutes late.
And most people are happy if you arrive 5 minutes early. So what I'm trying to say is that there should be a tolerance timeframe on the
arrival feature where if you arrive within...say...5 minutes early or 3 minutes late you still get the maximum points. Many times on real
longer flights, we would depart KJFK and land in LIRF 30 minutes early and I'd be the happiest person on the planet! I didn't care that
now I have to wait 1 hour and 30 minutes instead of only 1 hour for the connection. I prefer spending the additional time in the airport
where I can stretch my legs, have a decent coffee, do other things rather than having to seat in a pressurized tube at 35000 feet with 1x1
space around me! On the other hand a 30 minutes delay would really piss me off, not really only because I might loose the connection
but also because now I have to sacrifice and feel uncomfortable for 30 more minutes.

EDIT: I just realized I might have diverted the attention from the original subject of this post. Should I create a different one and delete this message?



Post Edited ( 09-06-05 19:01 )

[Edam]

SWAFO wrote:
Or, you could get a real world schedule, find out the amount of time a flight of the same route takes (by going to the airlines website, and
getting the schedule time), then enter a GMT arrival time! It's much easier, and realistic to enter the GMT time! I want GMT back!

Why on Earth would I want to get real world schedules by going to a website, then have to do the calculations? I don't care about real
world schedules. I just fire up FS, put in the flight plan to whereever I want to go, and the flight time is one click away. Having to fool with
GMT was a pain in the butt.

[silo]

Yes but SWAFO was pointing out that there are many people who like GMT instead, unlike you. That's why he proposed to have them both
available and then you can choose.

[DanSteph]

silo wrote:
But if GMT was already present before it might be a little easier.

Yes but it was buggy so I can't use the same method, in fact I have to rewrite again the whole stuff
if it was 5 lines of could I would have this done for the new version but it will be much more difficult...

I'm brain storming right now to see how I can do, But it might take sometime.

Dan

[Capt. Wotan]

I prefer the way it is now, the block time. Having read all the posts i don't see the problem, if i fly from Manchester to Gatwick i know that flight
would take around 1 Hr; so lets say i take off at 17:00 i should arrive around 18:00, what's the difference between setting 1 hour in block time
(perhaps factoring in some kind of delay time) and setting 18:00 on the GMT arrival time??? It seems easier and far less buggy this way.

Doesn't anybody else think that it would be better investing that programming time into some new features, rather than bringing back old ones???
Was there a poll on this, what did most people want?

[SWAFO]

Edam wrote:

SWAFO wrote:
Or, you could get a real world schedule, find out the amount of time a flight of the same route takes (by going to the airlines website, and
getting the schedule time), then enter a GMT arrival time! It's much easier, and realistic to enter the GMT time! I want GMT back!

Why on Earth would I want to get real world schedules by going to a website, then have to do the calculations? I don't care about real
world schedules. I just fire up FS, put in the flight plan to whereever I want to go, and the flight time is one click away. Having to fool with
GMT was a pain in the butt.

There really isn't any calculation involved. Go here: http://southwest.com/cgi-bin/requestSchedule

Click on a departure city, and an arrival city. If a flight departs at 740PM, and arrives at 840PM (in the same time zone), that flight is one
hour! Simple, isn't it?!?!? Remember though that the "1 hour" figure presented on the website isn't block time, it's the total time
(including averaged ground delays/holds) that the flight will take. So if I know that a flight from point A to point B takes 1 hour, I can plan to
depart at 330PM my time, and arrive at 430PM my time. Very simple actually!

Getting a real world schedule takes the guess work out of calculating an accurate block/flight time. If I know it takes an hour to fly from
ABQ to PHX, I don't have to sit there and calculate it. Get what I'm saying? Try using a real world schedule. It's a hell of a lot easier! The
FS flight planner is known for it's inaccuracy in plotting estimated flight times. You're obviously new to the world of FS and FSP, and that's
why you're making such a ignorant (for lack of a better word) statement.

I don't mean any offense, it's just that you shouldn't disrespect other peoples ideas, and suggestions. Give it a try, I'm sure you'll like it!

[pagir]

Brad, I really don't understand the difference between block/block and GMT... When do you "start" the "block" chronometer? When do you
stop it?

For the GMT, I understand you are beginning it when leaving gate, and stop it at gate. Why it's not the same thing with block/block???

Pagir-confused.

[SWAFO]

I think I can help Pagir. I'm not quite sure where you're getting confused, so I'm going to start with the basics.... sorry if you already
understand this stuff:

Basically, Block time is the time (in hours, minutes, and seconds) from brake release (when pushing back) to setting the brake's (when
parking at the completion of the flight). So basically if you have a flight that takes off at 5AM local time, and arrives at it's destination at
6AM (I mean that it specifically releases it's parking brake at 5AM, and sets it again at the destination at 6AM), you would have a block
time of one hour. Make sense?

On the other hand, GMT stands for Greenwich Mean Time. Basically, it's London Time, and is the time the world (for the most part) goes
by. Here in the United States, our Eastern Daylight time is currently 4 hours behind GMT time. So, if it's 1800 EDT here in America, it's
2200 GMT time. As you go further west through each time zone, the time delay between standard time and GMT time increases by 1
hour. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. We're on the Mountain time zone. We are 6 hours behind GMT time. Currently it's 5PM (1700)
local time. That means GMT is 2300. Essentially, GMT is just a timezone! GMT is more commonly known as ZULU (Z) time. Make
sense?

The two times don't really compare. GMT is a time zone, while Block time is the time measured (by a chronometer) from parking brake
release to parking brake set. Does this makes sense? For example, I have a flight that releases it's brakes at 1700Z, and sets them at
2000Z. This would equal 3 hours block time.

Note that I didn't say a flight departing at 1700Z, and arriving at 2000Z. This is were the reason I'd like GMT time brought back begins.
Let's say that same flight has a scheduled departure time of 1640Z, and a scheduled arrival time of 2000Z. In this example, we would
set our FSP block time to 3H and 20M... we would be docked points though if we ended up releasing the brakes at 1700Z.

Say that we had a 20 minute hold at the gate, so we didn't end up departing until 1700Z. Thus, the start of our block time occurs at
1700Z, and not at 1640Z as previously planned. While enroute, we encounter a stronger than expected tailwind. Due to our late
departure, we were planning for a late arrival as well (in which case the block time would still be the same as originally entered; 3H 20M),
however with these tailwinds we're able to land on time, and park at the gate at 2000Z (our planned arrival time). What just happened
was an example of why block time is not preferred in FSP. If I had set my block time to 3H and 20M, I would have been 20M early (since
my block time was actually only 3 H). However, if I entered my GMT arrival time of 2000, I would have had a perfect on-time arrival. Does
this make sense?

Delays can cause many disruptions in the block time, however we will occasionally have an on time arrival even with a delay. I explained
it in the most elementary way I can think of, and if you still have questions let me know. I'm happy to answer them

[AndrePaul]

get the new update, and use tghe flight block feature

thanks to Dan, this new feature reduces the chance of miscalculated times

[Needle]

I still go with Brad, even more after his thorough explanation about the differences between BLOCK and GMT.

[SWAFO]

AndrePaul wrote:
get the new update, and use tghe flight block feature

This might be easy for you to say, but for those of us that want realism, block time just doesn't cut it. I did download the latest update, and
will try to fly with the block time feature as soon as I get a chance. Doubt if I'll like it though!

[spilfred]

I Agree with Brad, GMT rules. Everyone should be the right to choice.

rsrs

[SWAFO]

Hopefully we'll see it brought back (in some form) in the next update! I've got my fingers crossed!