Take off 747 problem ,, keeping below 250 knots

[Recon]

Launchbury wrote:
Okay, allow me to interject some real-world knowledge into this discussion. Heavily loaded 747s cannot climb clean (which means flaps
retracted) at
250 knots, because their minimum clean speed is somewhere in the neighborhood of 260-280 knots. 747s request, and are granted
(usually), climb speeds
of 280-ish knots. If the speed increase is refused and for whatever reason ATC keeps them at 250 max, then the 747 has to climb with
flaps 1 extended
all the way to 10,000.

Well that is usefull information.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[iflyfsx]

Launchbury wrote:
Okay, allow me to interject some real-world knowledge into this discussion. Heavily loaded 747s cannot climb clean (which means flaps retracted) at
250 knots, because their minimum clean speed is somewhere in the neighborhood of 260-280 knots. 747s request, and are granted (usually), climb speeds
of 280-ish knots. If the speed increase is refused and for whatever reason ATC keeps them at 250 max, then the 747 has to climb with flaps 1 extended
all the way to 10,000.

"Unless otherwise authorized by the [FAA] administrator, no person may operate an aircraft below
10,000 feet MSL at an indicated airspeed of more than 250 knots (288 m.p.h.)."

Code of Federal Regulations, Title 14, Section 91.117.

I don't see any exceptions for 747s, though there are exceptions for military aircraft.

Edit--

OK, I think I found that exception. Not easy to find or understand.



Post Edited ( 10-21-09 02:23 )

[Turbine777]

If you want to fly the 747 family, I would recommend a worthy addon for accuracy. Unfortunately the default FSX 747 is probably the least
realistic in fsx that I know of. As a couple others in this post I use the PMDG 747-400 and have 0 probelms flying wellllll below 250 knots. There
is no substitute imo of flying as realistic as can be.

Flying with noise abatement procedures, as many airports will have you do will in fact keep you at around 170 - 200 knots until a 2k' or higher.
Now throw in flying the published airport departure routes and you now your simming. Of course this is where it makes it more real for me.
Normal takeoff procedure and after you've totalled weights, passenger, cargo, fuel will give you your V1, V2 and VR speeds.
V1 speed is the max speed you can safely perform a rejected takeoff.
VR is Rotation speed. The speed at which the aircraft's nosewheel leaves the ground.
V2 is Minimum takeoff safety speed, and normal takeoff procedures and/or noise abatement procedures is simply flying your departure route
(or runway heading alone in some cases) with V2 speed + 10 knots. So even if you had 300,000lbs of fuel you would not be exceeding 200-
knots on initial takeoff and climb.
A typical takeoff for me, with 2/3 passengers, 1/3rd cargo, 75,000lbs fuel (I often do 1 hour flights lately due to time) would be V2 at 145, so
145 + 10 would give me my initial climb at 155 knots. I normally maintain this up around 3,500' if not other wise posted on NA (Noise
abatement). And to maintain this speed with takeoff thrusts set, typically about 15-20 degrees atitude. After reaching 3500' I go to flaps 5 and
climb thrust. During the climb and depending on the wieght I will keep flaps 1 (always Flaps 1 until 10k' most airlines themselves require this), but in some cases flaps 5, normally depending on winds during fully loaded takeoff.

I toyed around with the fsx default 747 years ago, and still remember how difficult and unrealistic the thrust was. You would see imediate thrust
gains as soon as you touched the throttle, haha. That was probably the most unrealistic thing I remember. Just don't be hard on yourself for
not being able to maintain speed with the default during climb, it means nothing of your potential



Post Edited ( 10-25-09 05:08 )

[Recon]

Turbine777 wrote:
If you want to fly the 747 family, I would recommend a worthy addon for accuracy. Unfortunately the default FSX 747 is probably the least
realistic in fsx that I know of. As a couple others in this post I use the PMDG 747-400 and have 0 probelms flying wellllll below 250 knots.
There
is no substitute imo of flying as realistic as can be.

Flying with noise abatement procedures, as many airports will have you do will in fact keep you at around 170 - 200 knots until a 2k' or
higher.
Now throw in flying the published airport departure routes and you now your simming. Of course this is where it makes it more real for me.
Normal takeoff procedure and after you've totalled weights, passenger, cargo, fuel will give you your V1, V2 and VR speeds.
V1 speed is the max speed you can safely perform a rejected takeoff.
VR is Rotation speed. The speed at which the aircraft's nosewheel leaves the ground.
V2 is Minimum takeoff safety speed, and normal takeoff procedures and/or noise abatement procedures is simply flying your departure
route
(or runway heading alone in some cases) with V2 speed + 10 knots. So even if you had 300,000lbs of fuel you would not be exceeding
200-
knots on initial takeoff and climb.
A typical takeoff for me, with 2/3 passengers, 1/3rd cargo, 75,000lbs fuel (I often do 1 hour flights lately due to time) would be V2 at 145,
so
145 + 10 would give me my initial climb at 155 knots. I normally maintain this up around 3,500' if not other wise posted on NA (Noise
abatement). And to maintain this speed with takeoff thrusts set, typically about 15-20 degrees atitude. After reaching 3500' I go to flaps 5
and
climb thrust. During the climb and depending on the wieght I will keep flaps 1 (always Flaps 1 until 10k' most airlines themselves require
this), but in some cases flaps 5, normally depending on winds during fully loaded takeoff.

I toyed around with the fsx default 747 years ago, and still remember how difficult and unrealistic the thrust was. You would see imediate
thrust
gains as soon as you touched the throttle, haha. That was probably the most unrealistic thing I remember. Just don't be hard on yourself
for
not being able to maintain speed with the default during climb, it means nothing of your potential

We know......
The rest people can find on the knee-board.

[cumulus777]

I'm also flying a 747, but is it realistically possible to blow away the flaps in take off position at 210 knots? The program states that Vfe is
at 210kts, but the kneeboard reads that I can keep up safely with say 10 flaps config. until 230kts or so. Every time I takeoff, I go beyond
210 on takeoff and the flaps go busted! is this a glitch or no?, and if it is, can I do something about it or how can I just change that
restriction?

Thanks!

BTW, this is also the fsx 747

[whiskey-zulu]

Not a glitch as such, with the default 747, you need to tweak the flaps speeds in the aircraft.cfg file - open it with notepad.