| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
Author: AeroJim 1087 Posts Status: Living Legend  | Date 01-18-09 01:03 |
some ppl believe in religion ifly, which is one thing you gave them a hard time about, I don't really understand how you can be angry about that.
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: SkyAirWorld 1546 Posts Status: Forum Moderator | Date 01-18-09 02:43 |
*Sarcasm detector activated*  
Also, I have been getting rather annoyed about the "Miracle in the Hudson"
He did his job...and did it incredibly well.... Congratulations 
Not a miracle...
If he had something like a 42KT XWIND, Pouring Rain, And Thunder And Lightning everywhere... Then I might call that a "miracle"
but definatly is work 
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
Author: iflyfsx 418 Posts Status: Confirmed Astronaut  | Date 01-18-09 03:39 |
AeroJim wrote:
some ppl believe in religion ifly, which is one thing you gave them a hard time about, I don't really understand how you can be angry about that.
The problem is not so much with individual beliefs, but with the mainstream media calling it a "miracle," as if we were still worshipping the sun, and
did not understand lightning and thunder.
The PILOT saved those people, not blind "luck" or some invisible or supernatural force. Those people saved themselves by following emergency
procedures. The rescuers saved those people by responding quickly.
Like I said, if this was a "miracle," what about every other deadly plane crash? Did "God" hate those other people?
If someone wants to believe in supernatural beings, fine, but they should not confuse that with the natural world. How does this affect me? Because I
want to fly airplanes built on solid engineering and rational safety standards, not superstition. I want to fly on those airplanes with people who
will follow those emergency procedures, and not freeze in place or get in my way waiting for some supernatural force to save them.
I just wish we were a bit more rational and a bit less superstitious. OK, more than just a bit.
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: SkyAirWorld 1546 Posts Status: Forum Moderator | Date 01-18-09 03:58 |
Those people saved themselves by following emergency
procedures. The rescuers saved those people by responding quickly.
I'll disagree there,
Those people didnt save themselves, the Pilots! (I have been getting very annoyed that the media makes it look like the CPTN did all the
work, when the CPTN comes out after the talks with the ACI I hope he mentions the FO, I know unless the FO was doing nothing, he/ she
would be the first person that I mentioned as a CPTN) played a key part, aswell as the Cabin Crew... Passengers are much like sheep
It was skill to get the aircraft down, but also blind luck the aircraft didnt just rip apart, it was lucky conditions, and that the aircraft performed
as it was supposed too...
Still not a Miracle..
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: iflyfsx 418 Posts Status: Confirmed Astronaut | Date 01-18-09 05:01 |
My point was that passengers could have done a bunch of stupid things to get themselves killed, and they didn't.
Many of them were standing on the wings. If the rescuers had not arrived quickly, the passengers could have fallen in the water and drowned, and/or
died of hypothermia. Everyone played a role.
I'll have to disagree about luck. The airplane was either in good condition, or it wasn't. If it was in good condition, it's not because of luck, but
because it was designed and maintained properly. Those things don't just happen. We have to make them happen. That's my whole point. We have to rely
on ourselves and each other, not on supernatural forces or luck.
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: SkyAirWorld 1546 Posts Status: Forum Moderator | Date 01-18-09 06:14 |
drowed... maybe, they did have lifevests,
and also, I belive at the tempreatures at that time, 20 minutes would have been the time before death kicked in... (for average people)
20 Minutes is more than enough time for "help" to arrive...
I can see your point on disagreeing with the luck with the aircraft, however, things are not that black and white, aircraft can be perfeclty
maintained and still fall in pressure situations...
Remember the MD FedEx hijacking? How many perfectly maintained MD's could have with stood that pressure?
I'd guess not many...
If 2 A320's both brand new off the Airbus lines came out with 2 pilots identical (skills, weight, experience etc) both had a water landing
together, I'm willing to bet that 1 if not both of the aircraft would have a much worse impact....
My personal opinion is that the aircraft was lucky to have the pilots flying her that day, and that everything went as it was supposed too...
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: Joeflyer 7791 Posts Status: Living Legend | Date 01-18-09 17:05 |
SkyAirWorld wrote:
Remember the MD FedEx hijacking?
My personal opinion is that the aircraft was lucky to have the pilots flying her that day, and that everything went as it was supposed too...
My interview with the company happened a month after the hijacking. It was the hot topic for most of my interview Also, a very good
friend of mine wrote a book about it. Dave Hirshman and I use to fly aerobatics together in a clip wing Cub and his Yak 2-seater some
years ago before he ventured off to Atlanta to write for a paper down there. If you haven't read the book, "Hijacked", I highly recommend it:
http://www.amazon.com/Hijacked-Dave-Hirschman/dp/0440226473
I couldn't agree more with your last comment
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: Airliner 1122 Posts Status: Living Legend | Date 01-18-09 19:28 |
Just my two cents on miracles: A true miracle is something that cannot be explained. We can understand what happened in this
crash/splash landing or whatever you want to call it. If for example, the engines kept the plane in the air with all the fan blades completely
ripped out, THAT would be a miracle.
People are too quick to slap the word, "miracle" on things these days. They do happen but, this was just the result of proper training and
good skills. Again, if these folks in the media understood the training that these pilots undergo; the way aircraft are designed, etc. they'd
drop the miracle label and expect that this is the way it would have turned out.
About the temps - they said the water temp was 40 degrees (F) and a person in that would have about 30 minutes before hypothermia started to set in.
Post Edited ( 01-18-09 19:29 )
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: DSW334 1296 Posts Status: Living Legend | Date 01-18-09 19:36 |
iflyfsx wrote:
It was an amazing descent. The pilot kept the plane from hitting too hard, flipping over, breaking off.
A couple of things bother me about how the media report the story. Why does everyone call it a LANDing? Is our vocabulary that poor?
land·ing (lndng)
n.
1.
a. The act or process of coming to land or rest, especially after a voyage or flight.
Well.. that plane came to rest. So it's a landing. It doesn't specify you have to stop on tarmac or asphalt to call it a landing. Perhaps it's not
your every day landing. But it's a landing. That's for sure.
What really annoys me: It's not a "miracle." Angels did not come out of thin air to put that pane down. THE PILOT did, with his personal and
professional SKILLS.
mir·a·cle (mr-kl)
n.
1. An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of God:
Put 1,000 well trained pilots in that plane and only 1 will make it. So with the same training he has something that others have not. And could
therefore be said to be supernatural. And thus we can call this landing a miracle.
I've flown in commercial jets several times, and I've never seen "prayer" as part of the preparations for a crash. I have seen logical
procedures,
though. Specific things that people can do to increase their chances of survival. There are specific things aircraft manufacturers do to make the
airplanes safer. Hoping for good luck is not a substitute.
When you're up in the air and something goes wrong, there is a big change of things go wrong. What do people when they are in fear? Right.. They trust
the pilot, but those who believe in God will turn to him and ask him for help.
Sorry, but it really does irritate me to no end when supposedly educated people become superstitious cave people from the stone age.
Are you familiar with the term BLM? Which means Be Like Me? Don't judge people based on yourself. But judge people on theirself.
Was it just "luck" that everyone survived? No. It was the result of a combination of things. The pilot's skills, the geography, the weather,
and so
on. If any of those things had been different, the end result could have been quite different. This is just how it turned out this time.
luck (lk)
n.
1. The chance happening of fortunate or adverse events; fortune
And because those exact same conditions probably won't happen a second time, those people were pretty fortunate. So you can call it luck, I suppose.
If some divine force intervened here, why not in every other airplane crash? Why not on September 11, 2001?
"Miracle," my a$$.
Because miracles unfortunately don't happen every day. Otherwise it wouldn't be called a miracle
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: SkyAirWorld 1546 Posts Status: Forum Moderator | Date 01-19-09 00:42 |
Damn it DSW I was waiting for Ken to bring in the dictorinary (kidding)
Also, according the ASI the "Ditch" button was not engaged by the CPTN...
Still think the Co-Pilot deserves some what more of a mention for giving his shirt to someone after the landing....
[thread drift]
I shall have to give that a read Joe, been looking for some good new books, Stephen King's new books just dont cut it like the old ones....
little bit over Grisham and Courtney at the moment.....
Will go and find that one, Cheers joe
[/thread drift]
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: SkyAirWorld 1546 Posts Status: Forum Moderator | Date 01-19-09 00:59 |
I have not, Seems I'm forming a book list.... theres a thread for this now...
Back to Water Landing...
Either way, People here will make their own decisions,
I based on scientific logic, and thousands of hours in the air, say it was Skill, Mixed with a little bit of luck
Moderator
Read the FAQ
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: DSW334 1296 Posts Status: Living Legend | Date 01-19-09 10:36 |
Sure the skills of the captain and the rest of the crew helped a lot. But I don't think skills alone have made this "landing" one that everybody
walked away from.
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: SkyAirWorld 1546 Posts Status: Forum Moderator | Date 01-19-09 10:49 |
No, but it certianlly added,
As did the ideal conditons that day...
Aswell as the quick thinking of the ferries and boats quickly to surround it...
Aswell as the PAX remaining... "calm" in the situation...
So perhaps it was a miracle.....for the flight departing after USAir for their Captian, FO and CC would have perhaps handeled the situation
differently?
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: iflyfsx 418 Posts Status: Confirmed Astronaut | Date 01-31-09 06:20 |
A little body work and some paint, and it'll be ready to fly again
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
Author: Goose 60 Posts Status: Pilot near incorporation  | Date 01-31-09 06:52 |
Dont forget the duct tape, if it works for the military it should work for airlines too right?
*Welcome to Pan Pan Pan airlines where we hope the captain doesn't botch this landing*
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
| Re: USAir A320 crash today 1/15 |
|
Author: Joeflyer 7791 Posts Status: Living Legend | Date 02-01-09 05:04 |
Yep, speed tape fixes everything...the Bus will be up and flying in no time
|
Quote this message in your reply
|
|
