Error in default payload models?

Error in default payload models? - Printable Version

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Error in default payload models? - Covoxer - 30-11-2005

Hi!
I'm about to make some payload models and I found something that I don't understand in default ones. I have to get it right before I do it
myself.

So, there are 5 Price classes that you may select for every station in Payload editor:
- No price
- Vip
- First class
- Buisiness
- Economy

I can't find any clear information on what are they exactly. (except No price maybe ;-) )
First I thought that it's obvious and just means the seating type used in aircraft, right?
WRONG!
Or at least most of default models are wrong then.
All 2 class layouts used in 737, 717, MD81, A320 e.t.c. are set to Economy + First class in default layouts for FsPassengers, right?
But there are no first class seatings in 737-400 standard layout! 8 seats in front are called Premium but for comparision with bigger
planes that have 3 class layouts they are Buisiness class, not a First class!
First class seats have not less than 60in (150cm) pitch, Business class something like 40in (100cm) pitch and the Economy class is
about 31in (80cm) pitch.
These numbers can vary slightly from operator to operator but are very close in most cases a specially as long as we are talking about
Boeing.
Am I wrong here?

Than why 737-400 for example has 8 First class seats in default models if in fact they are at 40in pitch?
Shouldn't it be Business class?
Most other 2 class planes have this issue too.

Can anyone explain me this? If this is not a mistake then please tell me how can I figure out wich class select in my models.

Thank you!

P.S. And if the VIP class is what I think it is (with sleeping apartments), that the default 747-400 modell is wrong too. There is no standart
747-400 layouts with this class. And even if it was, it would not fit 30 (!) men in upper deck. For example, in Lufthansa layouts, 747-400
can fit only 16 passengers in First class in upper deck! So no way for 30 in VIP :-)

Re: Error in default payload models? - jboweruk - 01-12-2005

In FSP they are only service classes, there for FSP to calculate cost of seats and profit to airline, you can' t possibly mirror every seating
option of every airline/aircraft in the world as FSP would've never come out, so some things are a compromise. Dan worked very hard to
make sure that this was at once both fun and a way to encourage people to fly with some responsibility.

Sorry if that sounded harsh it certainly wasn't meant to be, just pointing out that they are only price classes, no more no less and I don' t
think really intended to mirror reality too much.

Re: Error in default payload models? - Covoxer - 01-12-2005

Quote:In FSP they are only service classes, there for FSP to calculate cost of seats and profit to airline

I know that! That's why I ask for more detailed explanation of their specific meaning. Like multiplier values or whatever they have.

Quote:you can' t possibly mirror every seating option of every airline/aircraft in the world as FSP would've never come out, so some things
are a compromise.

So? Have I mentioned anything about "every seating option of every airline/aircraft in the world "??? Actually that's why there is a payload
editor. 4 classes are pretty enough, since there are no 5 class layouts in the world.

Quote:Dan worked very hard to make sure that this was at once both fun and a way to encourage people to fly with some responsibility.

Again? Have I told you anything about Dan's work? I love FsPassengers, in other case I wouldn't bother to create any payload models
and as a result asking this question....

Quote:Sorry if that sounded harsh it certainly wasn't meant to be,

You wellcome. :-)

Quote:just pointing out that they are only price classes,

Thanks, but that's not even close to the answer on my question. Why to answer, if you don't know the answer,? :-)

Quote:and I don' t think really intended to mirror reality too much.

You are wrong here! That may mirror a lot for one playing economical mode. And on the other hand, noone should get extra profits from
extremely high prices for high comfort classes flying planes that have no such a possibility. This may make thing much less realistic.
Sure, any plane may be fitted with non standard layout, that's not the point. The point is that you can't fit 30 VIP seats in upper deck of 747-
400 for example. If you do so, that would mean that VIP class has smaller seat than the most popular 1st class seats in real life. So it
should be cheaper. But it's the most expensive class in FsPassengers...

I know there are mistakes in default payload models. And I do not criticize anyone for this. I thank Dan for load model editor, that hopefully
makes me able to fix those issues. And that's the thing that anyone should do instead of complaining.

But yet again - my question is how exactly are those classes rated, since I can not find any description of this not in docs neither on this
site.

Can anyone answer consistently please? Maybe Dan?

Thank you.

Re: Error in default payload models? - jboweruk - 01-12-2005

I can't see quite what you are getting at then, you set the prices yourself in the company manager part for each class. No price I think was
to model crew if people wanted to do that, economy is just the cheap cattlecar prices that places like EasyJet use. Businessclass is for
execs who want better service than economy but don't want to go too far, first class is a little up, service and seat is dearer you can get
more income for these seats. VIP is the top class, you can hike the prices for these and still fill them to a large degree, and of course you
can charge more for the food/drink. I think a lot depends on the type of airline you want to run too, I typically am flying small prop aircraft at
the moment but nearly all my seats are VIP class, on the Bonanza and Baron certainly I'm charging VIP prices for all seats (there's only 4
and if you look they are pretty decent seats). Dan would have to tell you how he worked out what a cheap or expensive price was for each
class, be ultimately we set the prices for ourselves.

Re: Error in default payload models? - Covoxer - 01-12-2005

Ah yes!!! Fool I am! :-)
Thank you! I've forgot about Company Manager.
This is the answer I wanted to get. It's right in my hands! Perfect!!! :-)

Since user can set price rates for every class, everythng else is meaningless.
Only thing that has to be taken to account is that all planes used in one company will get same price rates even if they are user set.
So I have to figure out how such prices relates in real companies and their class categories for different airliners.
But this question I can handle on my own. That's not a problem.

Thank you.

Re: Error in default payload models? - SaVas - 01-12-2005

Nice thing with the payload editor is you can have a VIP airline and make every seat a a VIP priced seat, or you can make everyone an
economy seat regardless of the pax aircraft. Its up to you!

For instance, in my CaptainSim C-130, I have made it a scenario for 3 different classes of pax - Refugees, Researchers, Military. I have
the exact same number of pax avail for each - 48 pax. Each is set to the same point in the payload model however...

My pricing for each is different:

Refugee - No charge (rescue missions)
Military - Economy at $100 per seat
Researchers - VIP pricing

When I start FSP I potentially could have 144 pax, however I wont choose that many. This gives me the ability to do the following:

If I am flying to antarctica I will load only Researchers, and some cargo

If I am flying out of or into Iraq, could be military or refugees or a mix.

If I am flying out of Alaska it might be all cargo (I have the cargo max amount an empty C-130 can fly set in the payload model)

In essence wherever my C-130 flies to, it can be of use.

Thats the nice thing about the payload editor and the company manager and FsP. You have the freedom to have fun!