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+--- Thread: How this Flap Penalty works????? (/showthread.php?tid=3338)
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How this Flap Penalty works????? - ozgurtetik - 10-01-2009
Aircraft: Beech King Air 350 Paint3
Max Flap Limits: (from Reference Page in FSX)
Approach : 202 KIAS
Full Extend: 158 KIAS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What am I doing:
Take-Off
Set Flaps to Approach
Take-off speed is between 160-170 KIAS
Ground level is 200ft
Gears UP after Take-off
Set flaps to 0 at between 800ft -1000ft
ALT set to 4000 ft
set A/P on
set ALT on
set GPS on
Climbing to 4000 ft
Approach:
A/P is on
NAV1 is set and active
speed reduced to between 180-190 KIAS
set flaps to approach as soon as gone below to 202 KIAS
set APPR on when glideslope at middle
speed is reducing and I set flaps to full extend right after 158 KIAS
Result:
Pilot's Penalty points: -243 points
You have exceeded the flap speed limit by 24.35kts (-243)
what am I doing wrong?
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - SkyAirWorld - 10-01-2009
On Take-Off ?
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - ozgurtetik - 10-01-2009
Quote:SkyAirWorld wrote:
On Take-Off ?
sorry didn't understand??
on Take-off flaps set to approach (there are only there: 0, approach and full extend)
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - ozgurtetik - 10-01-2009
and also using FsxP setting I am disabling or enabling Flaps penalty but it does NO effect. Doesn't matter it is disable or enable. penalty
always appears in end of flight report.
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - SkyAirWorld - 10-01-2009
I was wondering if you had been setting flaps for take off, and might have been exceeding there...
For that to have effect you need to close MFS and re-load again.... I think...
Are you using the standard King Air 350?
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - SkyAirWorld - 10-01-2009
Something that might be handy to you
http://www.itsyourplane.com/generator.asp?a=KingAir350
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - KenG - 10-01-2009
Quote:ozgurtetik wrote:
Aircraft: Beech King Air 350 Paint3
Take-off speed is between 160-170 KIAS
what am I doing wrong?
You are waiting way to late to rotate. Depending on weight take-off speeds for the 350 is between 124 and 130 for a zero flaps take-off at
MGTOW. Drop the flaps to approach for TO and it reduces to take-off speed by about 10 KIAS. There are an entire list of VSpeed for the
350 and I am just ball parking a few numbers for you.
The "its your plane" checklist for the King Air 350 is full of errors and I would not recommend using it.
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - SkyAirWorld - 10-01-2009
I also noticed the errors in it, however for the purposes of Flight Sim I found them hardly a major concern....
Also noticed the approach flaps, using the approach should get you down to around 2,737ft (ish) of RWY using V1 at 95k correct me if I'm
wrong there ken... Also I would approach around 110 KIAS (At MLW)
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - ozgurtetik - 11-01-2009
Quote:SkyAirWorld wrote:
I also noticed the errors in it, however for the purposes of Flight Sim I found them hardly a major concern....
Also noticed the approach flaps, using the approach should get you down to around 2,737ft (ish) of RWY using V1 at 95k correct me if I'm
wrong there ken... Also I would approach around 110 KIAS (At MLW)
Approach speed is 120-124 KIAS with flap on approach level. I have tested it so many times. I speed is between 120-124 then I can keep
glideslope at middle.
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - ozgurtetik - 11-01-2009
In which situation we get flap penalty?
Arcraft: Beech King Air 350.
Flap Level 1 speed limit is 202 KIAS
Flap Level 2 speed limit is 158 KIAS (full extended)
1- flap level 0 speed 140
2- flap level 0 speed 160
3- flap level 0 speed 210
4- flap level 1 speed 140
5- flap level 1 speed 160
6- flap level 1 speed 210
7- flap level 2 speed 140
8- flap level 2 speed 170
Look at above list and could you tell me which of them I get flap penalty?
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - Tracker801 - 11-01-2009
The problem is in the air file of your aircraft.
Im not a file jockey so I wont get too far into it. But in this air file you have the stall speeds set in stone for the aircraft as well as the flap
settings, positions, effective area, etc etc.
We can all give you RL guidelines, figures and numbers but they do not mean anything if the airfile itself is bad.
This is FS ladies and gentlemen, not RL. If I could make a 738 go faster by just typing onto a piece of paper that it can go that much faster I would
make billions....
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - SkyAirWorld - 11-01-2009
On paper, it is around 110kias at MLW for approach (with flaps down... obviously)
I assure you
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - KenG - 11-01-2009
Quote:SkyAirWorld wrote:
Also noticed the approach flaps, using the approach should get you down to around 2,737ft (ish) of RWY using V1 at 95k correct me if I'm
wrong there ken... Also I would approach around 110 KIAS (At MLW)
You caught me without my books so I have to remember off the top of my head but 108 to 111 sounds about right for full flaps and 118 to
121 about right for approach flaps again based on density altitude and weight of the aircraft. We use a minimum of 5,000' of runway as
the BFL for the BE30s and the BE30s will have a touchdown ground run of about half of that. I know for a fact that I have touched down on
the 500' marker and taxied off before the 3,000' marker in a BE30 before. So stopping a BE30 using full flaps and full propeller reverse
with heavy breaking below 60 KIAS it is possible and demonstrated to stop is 2,500' of runway. Again most of the time we are looking to
make sure that we have BFL to get back out of the airfield which is always higher than my landing distance. OPS limits us to no less than
5,000' or computed BFL+500' which ever is greater. During the approach briefing when we state sufficient runway we mean BFL not
landing distance.
There has been some question if FSPX reads the damage and blowout speeds in the flaps section of the aircraft.cfg or if it reads the
gear damage speeds and adds 10 knots for flaps. Regardless FSPX tells you when you load the aircraft which speeds it considers bad
for the BE30 then you should adjust your operation to match what FSPX is going to nail you for.
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - SkyAirWorld - 11-01-2009
With flaps down,
(If the Aircraft is the same/ similer to real life)
You shouldnt stall with flaps down till about 81kts, so stay about 85 kts on landing and your fine, just slow your approach before you kick
the flaps out, if that works... Great... if not then we might need to help you edit your CFG file
( Stall Speeds should be:
Flaps Down: 81kts
Flaps Approach: 89Kts
Flaps Up: 96kts
Might be wrong, working of memory here... )
Re: How this Flap Penalty works????? - KenG - 11-01-2009
Quote:SkyAirWorld wrote:
You shouldnt stall with flaps down till about 81kts, so stay about 85 kts on landing and your fine, just slow your approach before you kick
the flaps out, if that works... Great... if not then we might need to help you edit your CFG file
( Stall Speeds should be:
Flaps Down: 81kts
Flaps Approach: 89Kts
Flaps Up: 96kts
Thoes speeds would be below VMCA and are not recommended for use on approach for a BE30 series aircraft. Loose an engine then
have to go around and your in a widow maker. All King Airs have a Vref speed for approach that should be used.
When you load out your a/c FSPX should give you a list of speeds at the bottom including VLE and VFE. Note thoes numbers and post
them here.
I am on the road again today but you know what numbers you are looking for.