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+--- Thread: [Solved]These numbers dont make any sense to me (/showthread.php?tid=18224)
[Solved]These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 17-11-2017
Hi All,
Maybe this is a very silly thing what iI post here. But if i check my in flight report and check the fuel consumption these numbers don't seem to match with the reality. So in order to make correct fuel planning I get always penalties. I have read the FAQ about this and went to the online fuel planner this program gives me exactly what I need same as TopCat which I usually use. But none of these numbers are matching with FSP numbers. So what am I doing wrong here.
http://prntscr.com/hbmq7r
This picture shows my inflight report
This shows my current fuel consumption
And here used fuel
Please can someone explain me what I'm doing wrong here????
I would be really thankfull
Regards
Ray
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Joeflyer - 17-11-2017
How are you setting the fuel for the 737? Via FMC or FsP? It certainly shows a considerable amount of fuel burn per hour based on the climb to FL370 for such a short distance. Try another flight of the same distance but at FL250 and see what that gives you. Same fuel load.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 17-11-2017
I set the fuel via the FMC as this is recommended. PFP give these flight levels as optimum but i can change this offcourse by the FMC at the CRZ page.
But how can FSP tell me that I have a fuel consumption of 48000 lbs/h?
My numbers are pretty close to topcat and PFPX, but FSP tells here fuel used is 30000 lbs this can't be correct it should be 6660 lbs, if I can trust the screen of my NGX. I think also I mix up psome things.
Anyhow im about to start a new flight this time from LFPG to EFHK. Its a 3h flight according Topcat I should bring 28329 lbs fuel which gives me as remaining fuel 14767 lbs. This all with a ZFW of 124300 lbs. PFPX gives a FL of 370 (I think this is anyhow wrong cause I think it should be an even number as I fly up NE). If I understand you correct I should reduce this FL to about 240 or 260?
BTW: Apologizes for the double thread I was thinking no one answered because I posted it in the wrong area.
Thanks for the help
Raymond
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Joeflyer - 17-11-2017
Does PFPX give the fuel burn for climb to FL370 or is it fuel burn based on cruise?
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 17-11-2017
(17-11-2017, 06:00 PM)Joeflyer Wrote: Does PFPX give the fuel burn for climb to FL370 or is it fuel burn based on cruise?
Yes it does but that you need to calculate that by yourself when looking to the flightplan. So last flight which I did as mentioned in my previous post from LFPG to EFHK. It PFPX recommended to go to FL360 from take off to reaching FL360 I would burn approx 3800 lbs.
I took youor advise on this flight and went to FL260 and this time I did not get a penalty by FSP BUT.......
The screen in the plane which shows used fuel tells a different value as what FSP tells me at the end of the flight. And this difference is very very big. So I actually think that there is the problem. I don't know what it could be but could it be that I use a differente plane or different settings with respect to FSP?
FSP end of flight data
737-800 NGX data
I use all standard settings I never changed something in those airplane files etc. But as you can see FSP tells me I used 35000 lbl and the plane tells me I used 17000 lbs. This is basically a factor 2 difference.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Joeflyer - 20-11-2017
Are you enabling or disabling the weight/fuel in the dialogue box that comes up when you begin the FsP flight process? I always disable it. Load fuel in the FMC and set payload to empty within the FMC. I loaded the aircraft with just over 25k of fuel. Total fuel used: 11,446 lbs....total remaining: 13,700 lbs.
Comes to 25,146 lbs. Seems correct on my end.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 20-11-2017
The weight/fuel is disabled as recommended. Than I load the passengers with the dialog box and put some payload in the plane in FSP dialog box. Than I go back to the cockit and set the fuel and passengers and payload by the FMC. I dont understand are you telling me here that I should put the payload to 0LBS and passengers to 0 LBS in the FMC and only put the desired fuel by the FMC.
So how does the FMC tell you the correct ZFW and CG, these numbers the FMC uses to calculate the trim and progress on your flight, isnt?
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Joeflyer - 20-11-2017
You will get the ZFW and TOW within the FsP dialogue. Enter the ZFW into the FMC and it will fill in automatically the TOW. What FsP shows as the TOW and what the FMC shows will be slightly different but negligible when it comes to fuel load requirement for the trip. FsP dialogue will also give you the CG percentage that is needed to put into the FMC as well so that you can set the proper trim.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 21-11-2017
I dont understand I dont get the ZFW from FsP because I have disbled the load option by the dialoge. Then when I load passangers by the slides and put some payload by the slides below followed by setting my destination and start the flight. I get a screen (flight manifest) with some speeds but the ZFW has only XXX. I notced also that FsP always but 45000 lbs in the tanks which is maximum.
Very strangely I used approx. 30000 lbs for a flight from EGLL to EHAM and the same value for a flight from LFPG to UUEE. The first flight is only 232 NM and the latter 1365 NM.
As I tried to explain the numbers of fuel in the tanks dont match between FsP and my PMDG 737NGX.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Joeflyer - 21-11-2017
Ray, it seems you should focus hard on how to properly set up the 737 prior to flight. I know it's not a simple process, and it does take time to get familiar with how the FMC works.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 21-11-2017
So what am I doing wrong here? I know how to put fuel in the tanks and setup ZFW etc. But still I dont see why these numbers dont match?
Why I dont see the ZFW here I really want to learn this so any advise I would greatly appreciate. I plan my flight as follows:
- I choose departure and destination (usualy I depart from where my previous flight arrived)
- I let PFPX find the route and I need to give here also passangers and payload. To do this I need to start FsP because it gives me the amount of passengers waiting at the gate.
- When I know how much passengers and payload I can bring I continue my flight plan with PFPX and send the info to Topcat, export the flightplan and print a pdf of the flightplan.
- PFPX gives me a decent estimaiton of the flight time so I set this up in the destination dialoge box in FsP
- Than I start the flight with FsP. At this time I see the screen shot as shown above
- Than I go the FMC and plug in the amount of fuel and payload (ZFW) as given by FSPX and Topcat
- I open the flight plan and setup the route and correct speeds etc
- This all followed by setup the plane to be able to flight and take off
Thanks a lot for all the replies Joeflyer!
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 22-11-2017
I think I was able to solve my issue. While at the gat I check first how much passagers are waiting at the gate. Than I close the window without starting the flight with FsP. Than I start to plan the flight with PFPX and Topcat when they give me all the numbers for fuel and ZFW etc I plug in the numbers for fuel and ZFW in the FMC. Only after that I open FsP again and board the passengers etc. Now the numbers are pretty close to eachother. While flying the plane and FsP give almost the same numbers and at arrival no penalities.
RE: These numbers dont make any sense to me - Joeflyer - 23-11-2017
Good to know, Ray. Since I don't use PFPX and Topcat, I can't comment on how good or bad they are, but if the process you have discovered works best for you, stay with it. I only use FS Commander for flight planning, which gives me some idea of the fuel I need for various aircraft I use. Most of the time I calculate it in my head since I fly in real time very often. At any rate, happy flying!
RE: [Solved]These numbers dont make any sense to me - Ray1981 - 23-11-2017
I fly a lot to but as passenger LOL, I travel a lot for work and this made me curious about flying btw.
Anyhow I think PFPX and Topcat give pretty good numbers compared what the FMC tells me and now finaly to what FsP tells me. I created a XLS file if and started to log the data so if anybody is ever interested feel free to ask im happy to share it.
The main issue is that for FsP it is important that you first fuel up for your flight and than board the passengers and start the flight. If I start FSX it loads the tanks full (i.e. 45000 lbs) than if you board your passengers with FsP and start the flight and after change the fuel it doesnt change for FsP so it will start counting with the 45000 lbs. And offcourse than your fuel flow and usage will be different as what the FMC tells you because your overall weight has been changed. All makes sense I'm happy to get rid of those annoying penalties
Grtz and thanks a lot for the help.