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+--- Thread: Victor airways: Advantages? (/showthread.php?tid=16253)
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Victor airways: Advantages? - CowlFlapsOpen - 16-08-2006
I understand the nature of Victor and Jet airways from an airspace and historical point of view but can a real world pilot explain how they are used
and how frequently? That is, during flight planning, to what extent does a VFR and IFR pilot go out of their way to incorporate them into a flight
plan and what would be the advantages over a direct routing (other than being able to summarize a list of legs efficiently when filing a flight plan).
How far away from a direct routing is one willing to go to join one, for example? Do people just incorporate them if the happen to be travelling on
them anyway, or do they make an effort to join one? Commercial flghts do not seem to concern themselves with J airways up in the class A. Maybe
bizjets pay more attention to them... Thanks
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Joeflyer - 16-08-2006
To summarize:
The victor airways are something like the interstate highway system, except that the airways are above the ground and you can't actually
see them—they're a system of established routes that run along specified VOR radials, from one VOR station to another. They therefore
make flight planning easier, and they help Air Traffic Control to organize and regulate the traffic flow, plain and simple. Other advantages
include terrain, MOA, special use airspace avoidance.
As a C208 driver, I rarely use the Victor airways. 99.9% I get cleared GPS direct to my destination after departing Class B airspace. In the
areas I fly, there isn't a big concern about high terrain, so flying low altitude victor airways would not be of a big interest to me unless ATC
instructed me to do so.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - AeroJim - 16-08-2006
Joe, do you mostly fly VFR or IFR? I know a lot of companies are required IFR but i was wondering if you guys can go ahead and cancel
your IFR trip, not that you would want if you ahd the clearance, i wouldn't
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - CowlFlapsOpen - 17-08-2006
Thanks Joe. Your observation is precisely the thing that makes me curious. There doesn't seem a big need for the airways, since most of the MOA,
terrain, etc. info is something one can gleen right off the sectional. The VOR to VOR vectoring is nice, but can be done without regard for airways.
Indeed, in many cases, in my fs planning, the airways add length to the route by bending or by the need to divert to intercept them. And, then there
is GPS, as you point out...
all this seems to make undertaking any special effort to follow V airways seem unnecessary. In a few limited circumstances, the class E airways
could provide a bit more security by requiring greater cloud separation than in Class G but aircraft separation doesn't seem to be an advantage. Just
curious whether in practice pilots bother much with airways. Sounds like you don't
Post Edited ( 08-17-06 06:07 )
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Airliner - 17-08-2006
Go back and look at how flight used to be "controlled" before VORs, GPS, etc. They had beacons that lined up for pilots to follow (not sure
if these were the first NDBs or not - don't recall the exact term). Anyway, they formed pathways for the planes to fly - the pilot would focus
on the beacon or whatever it was called, then as it passed, they'd focus on the next one and follow their route point to point. The airways
developed along these lines to keep traffic organized. Now, with developments like GPS, it isn't as neccessary to have all that structure,
although I wouldn't make the same claim for Jet Airways! I wouldn't want all those jumbos running wild up there!
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - aristoteles - 17-08-2006
Airliner, as a real C208 pilot what aircraft do you use in FS? Feelthere´s ?
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Joeflyer - 17-08-2006
Quote:AeroJim wrote:
Joe, do you mostly fly VFR or IFR? I know a lot of companies are required IFR but i was wondering if you guys can go ahead and cancel
your IFR trip, not that you would want if you ahd the clearance, i wouldn't
In company aircraft, ALWAYS IFR. The flight plans are already in the ATC system...known as "canned" flight plans. It's a rareity for any of
our company C208s to fly Part 91, VFR. The VFR flight is accomplished if an aircraft had some slight damage during ground operations,
got a temporary repair at the location and obtained a ferry permit to get permanent repairs at the home base. That's just an example.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Joeflyer - 17-08-2006
Quote:CowlFlapsOpen wrote:
Thanks Joe. Your observation is precisely the thing that makes me curious. There doesn't seem a big need for the airways, since most
of the MOA,
terrain, etc. info is something one can gleen right off the sectional. The VOR to VOR vectoring is nice, but can be done without regard for
airways.
Indeed, in many cases, in my fs planning, the airways add length to the route by bending or by the need to divert to intercept them. And,
then there
is GPS, as you point out...
all this seems to make undertaking any special effort to follow V airways seem unnecessary. In a few limited circumstances, the class E
airways
could provide a bit more security by requiring greater cloud separation than in Class G but aircraft separation doesn't seem to be an
advantage. Just
curious whether in practice pilots bother much with airways. Sounds like you don't
I can agree to some extent to your assessment of not needing airways, but even if you can gleen terrain information from the sectionals,
and attempt flying a direct GPS route into high terrain areas, you might be falling into sense of complacency about your flying.
Those "bending" routes have a purpose. Yes, they add length to the distance flown, but there's a pupose for that. I explained it in a
previous post. In FS, it doesn't matter if a person flies direct or uses the airways. No harm, no fowl...no one gets hurt. In the real world of
aviation, that may not be the case. I just want to be clear on this subject.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - CowlFlapsOpen - 17-08-2006
Thanks all. AS I mentioned, I know the history and structure of the airways. My question was whether modern pilots actually use them much. Flight in
Class A is always positively controlled with ATC separation so it doesn't surprise me that commericial flights seem largely to ignore J airways (maybe
I'm wrong). Since VFR is allowed on V airways, not much advantage of that type here. In FS I studiously follow V airways but I'm beginng to think
this is unnecessarily restrictive and since it is often inefficient I wondered what happens in real life. One advantage I can see is in flight
planning. The magnetic heading and distances along V ways are given on the sectional and this could save some computational time. And of course they
make communication a little more efficient when filing a flight plan.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Joeflyer - 17-08-2006
Quote:CowlFlapsOpen wrote:
Thanks all. AS I mentioned, I know the history and structure of the airways. My question was whether modern pilots actually use them
much. Flight in
Class A is always positively controlled with ATC separation so it doesn't surprise me that commericial flights seem largely to ignore J
airways (maybe
I'm wrong). Since VFR is allowed on V airways, not much advantage of that type here. In FS I studiously follow V airways but I'm beginng
to think
this is unnecessarily restrictive and since it is often inefficient I wondered what happens in real life. One advantage I can see is in flight
planning. The magnetic heading and distances along V ways are given on the sectional and this could save some computational time.
And of course they
make communication a little more efficient when filing a flight plan.
You nailed it down precisely...good job.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Airliner - 17-08-2006
Quote:aristoteles wrote:
Airliner, as a real C208 pilot what aircraft do you use in FS? Feelthere´s ?
Hello? Where did I ever say I was a real C208 pilot? I believe that was JoeFlyer you wanted.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - aristoteles - 17-08-2006
Yes, Joeflyer.....
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Joeflyer - 17-08-2006
Quote:aristoteles wrote:
Airliner, as a real C208 pilot what aircraft do you use in FS? Feelthere´s ?
In case you were directing that question to me, I rarely fly the C208 in FS. Still have the default one. I have seen quite a few people in the
forums mentioning using Feel There's C208. I have looked at FT's C208 and would purchase it if my intentions were to fly short routes of
less than 2 hours.
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - AeroJim - 18-08-2006
Hey Joe, think you could get us a pic of your instrument panel one of these trips?
Re: Victor airways: Advantages? - Joeflyer - 18-08-2006
Quote:AeroJim wrote:
Hey Joe, think you could get us a pic of your instrument panel one of these trips?
Okie Dokie...here you go...it's not a good pic since we were getting bumped around quite a bit that day due to nearby storms:
![[Image: C208Cockpit.jpg]](http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d168/Joeflyer/C208Cockpit.jpg)