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+--- Thread: 747 problems (/showthread.php?tid=1053)
747 problems - ronny - 19-09-2005
I have a few problems with the 747 and wondered if anyone else can fly the damn thing
The first is the fact the default plane stalls on ILS with full flaps and using auto throttle keeping the plane at 150kts which I think is the
landing speed.
Second is take off, I take off the 747 with 3 clicks of flaps and almost everytime the plane rips the flaps off, I have tried taking off using
less than 90% full throttle, but the plane is too fast and as soon as you lift off, the plane is doing in excess of 250kts, even if you take off
with only 50% throttle which is way too unrealistic it still lfies too fast and you then stall it just off the ground, and you cannot get out of stall
in a 747 in fs2004, even at 40k feet, any suggestions, I have managed to take off once, using auto throttle to keep the speed down.
Plane is default 747 and meljet BA version.
Another question about fsp, is there a turorial about buying new planes?
I just got back off hols and first thing I did was buy FSP, it really is a great mod for fs2004 :P
Thanks
Ronny
Here is the last flight analysis if it helps anyone
Flight HX069 End of flight report Date September 18 2005
Flight ID: HX069
Pilot: xxxxxx (RIP)
Company: World Travel
Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 British Airways Union Flag
Flight Date: September 18 2005
Departure: 08h12 (06h13 GMT)
Arrival: --
From: LFPG - Charles De Gaulle - France
To: ----
Nbr of Passengers: 321
Accident Report:
The aircraft crashed at 07h43 hitting ground at 181 kt with a vert. speed of -11479 ft/m.
According to the black-box we deduce the following: The flaps were extended at excessive airspeed and were damaged. This was
probably the root cause of the crash. No emergency was declared before the crash.
Casualties:
-321 passengers aboard
-321 killed
-0 injured
-Pilot and flight crew were killed
Report:
Flight Distance: 184 Nm Landing Speed: --
Time Airborne: 00h29:12 Landing Touchdown: --
Flight Time (block): 00h30:10 Landing Pitch: --
Time On Ground: 00h01:44 Landing Weight: --
Average Speed: 379.81 kt Total Fuel Used: 21428 lbs
Max. Altitude: FL 200 Fuel Not Used: 154599 lbs
Climb Time: 00h10:39 Climb Fuel Used: 10565 lbs
Cruise Time: 00h10:01 Cruise Fuel Used: 7245 lbs
Average Cruise Speed: 539.60 kt (M0.81) Cruise fuel/hour: 43399 lbs (calc)
Descent Time: 00h08:32 Descent Fuel Used: 3617 lbs
Re: 747 problems - olseric - 19-09-2005
I'll do what I can, but someone who knows the aircraft better than I may be able to answer better than I...
Quote:The first is the fact the default plane stalls on ILS with full flaps and using auto throttle keeping the plane at 150kts which I think is
the landing speed.
Okay, the first thing you need to know is that landing speed is not a constant. It is a variable that is based upon several factors but the
most influential is aircraft weight. Now, if your 150 kts is what you calculated as a Vref, great! Thing is, that 150 should be what you're at
passing the threshold...not 8nm out. Also, check your weight to be sure you're not over the max landing weight. That would be another
reason for a stall out.
In the 747, 180 kts for ILS intercept is probably a good speed...you should most likely have around 10 deg of flaps at this point. Just
before intercepting the GS (it begins to move down), lower the gear and start slowing down...if you do this right, you should be adding
flaps incrementally along the way and simultaneously slowing down.
Quote:Second is take off, I take off the 747 with 3 clicks of flaps and almost everytime the plane rips the flaps off, I have tried taking off
using less than 90% full throttle, but the plane is too fast and as soon as you lift off, the plane is doing in excess of 250kts, even if you
take off with only 50% throttle which is way too unrealistic it still lfies too fast and you then stall it just off the ground, and you cannot get
out of stall in a 747 in fs2004, even at 40k feet, any suggestions, I have managed to take off once, using auto throttle to keep the speed
down.
If you are exceeding 250 kts before you are airborne, I am convinced that you are way too heavy. Check your payload and make sure that
you do not have the aircraft overloaded.
With a full load, the 747-400 should still have a V2 speed somewhere between 180-190 kts. Once airborne, that thing should maintain
250 kts climbing out at roughly 4000 fpm.
For practice purposes, empty the plane out except for 25% fuel evenly distributed between the two wing tanks. Once you get the hang of it
there, then you can start boosting your payload and your fuel load for longer ranges. With that weight, just guessing here, your Vr should
probably be in the range of 160 kias, V2 around 170 kias.
Re: 747 problems - ronny - 19-09-2005
Hmm, thanks for the reply, give it a try, load up with the same settings as me, fuel passengers etc and try taking off, COG is just below
centre if you load the front full.
I have tried and tried but cannot get it off the ground properly, I will give it another go tonight, also why if you stall a 747 at hight can you not
get out of it, even if you nose down at 40,000ft it will not come out of the stall, btw I have had loads of perfect flights in fully laden 737
including the pdmg 737 800.
Re: 747 problems - olseric - 19-09-2005
Quote:why if you stall a 747 at hight can you not get out of it, even if you nose down at 40,000ft it will not come out of the stall
My guess is you were too heavy for that altitude. It will come out of it, but it's not easy...you need to sacrifice altitude for airspeed...and at a
controlled rate.
Simply "diving" the airplane won't do anything other than stress the H-E-double hockey sticks out of the airframe and possibly put you into a spin.
Re: 747 problems - ronny - 19-09-2005
Try it olseric, see if you can stop a 747 stalling
Re: 747 problems - jboweruk - 19-09-2005
Trick in FS is to catch the stall before it happens, when the stall warning goes off that's when to correct, not when the bird stalls as they
do seem pretty non-recoverable in FS default airliners.
Re: 747 problems - olseric - 20-09-2005
Quote:see if you can stop a 747 stalling
Well, I did have one stall out on climbout which I successfully recovered (that happened at about 5000 ft, I lost 4000 in the recovery).
I will try it with the default and report back...what altitude do you want me to start at?