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+--- Thread: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel (/showthread.php?tid=1012)
DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - psolk - 12-09-2005
Dang winds. At one point it was 138 knt headwind and it just ate up my fuel. I wish I could have declared to tower I was low on fuel and recv'd
clearance. That way you can avoid the penalty because otherwise it was a great flight. I met my blocktime within a minute on a 10 1/2 hour trip. but had to do .88 the whole way to do it.
I did manage a sweet landing right on the centerline thanks to a lot of crabbing in an 18kt crosswind on landing and I did not get stopped by the police foe being intoxicated while getting off the flight 
Flight VS019 End of flight report Date September 11 2005
Flight ID: VS019
Pilot: Paul Solk
Company: Virgin Atlantic
Aircraft: 747-400 Birthday Girl 21st
Flight Date: September 11 2005
Departure: 11h15 (10h15 GMT)
Arrival: 13h45 (20h46 GMT)
From: EGLL - Heathrow - United Kingdom
To: KSFO - San Francisco Intl - Usa
Nbr of Passengers: 398
Report:
Flight Distance: 4,652 Nm Landing Speed: 126.91 kt
Time Airborne: 10h13:43 Landing Touchdown: -169.23 ft/m (nice)
Flight Time (block): 10h30:39 Landing Pitch: 5.55°
Time On Ground: 00h17:06 Landing Weight: 540275 lbs
Average Speed: 454.61 kt Total Fuel Used: 311928 lbs
Max. Altitude: FL 390 Fuel Not Used: 13289 lbs
Climb Time: 00h20:42 Climb Fuel Used: 73601 lbs
Cruise Time: 09h15:32 Cruise Fuel Used: 229716 lbs
Average Cruise Speed: 470.35 kt (M0.74) Cruise fuel/hour: 24810 lbs (calc)
Descent Time: 00h37:29 Descent Fuel Used: 8609 lbs
Passenger Opinion: Exceptional flight (100%)
-Are pleased to have landed right on schedule.
-Are relieved to have landed safely after the extreme weather they experienced during landing.
-Were highly entertained by the movie.
-Were in a better mood because they had food.
-Were pleased by the music on ground. A very nice addition to their flying experience.
Overall Flight Result: Perfect
Pilot Bonus points: 941 points
You made a very nice landing. (+50)
Perfect Flight, no problems and very satisfied passengers. (+150)
You landed at the scheduled airport. (+30)
Precise arrival time at destination.(-00h00:40 difference) (+100)
Long flight (10h13) without using time acceleration, without any problems and with satisfied passengers. (+511)
Extreme weather conditions during approach, but a safe landing and satisfied passengers. (+100)
Pilot's Penalty points: -300 points
Flight regulations require that you have sufficient fuel reserves upon landing (45 mn); you only had reserves for 00h26 of flight. (-300)
Oh Well, I will do better on the return but for now it is off to pass out. Night everyone,
Back to work tomorrow
-Paul
Post Edited ( 09-12-05 07:11 )
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - olseric - 12-09-2005
Search the forums for weather.
Both Brad and I posted a ton of sites that provide weather information you can use for your route planning.
One of the things I posted was a link to the NOAA site that has the winds aloft forecast over the North Atlantic. If you look at it and draw in
the proposed flight track, you can easily see what kind of wind to expect.
While this method isn't the most accurate, it's certainly the cheapest and will give you a rough idea for estimating your winds aloft and, in
turn, adjusting your ground speed that you calculated for your fuel.
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - psolk - 12-09-2005
Hi Eric,
I tried that, used ASV, the new fuel planner and the FSBuild fuel planner as well. Problem was everything was showing winds of ~ 70kts. When I got
up they were closer to 130 kts and I quickly saw the error of my calculations. Like you said, it isn't a science... I am struggling for every point
to make C10 right now so losing 300 definitely did not help...
Thanks,
-Paul
Post Edited ( 09-12-05 14:28 )
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - SWAFO - 12-09-2005
Yep, the NOAA website is great for most things regarding aviation weather.
That's why I normally set winds aloft manually (even though they remain static during the flight... none of my flights are over 3 hours on the
PC). That way I know exactly what to expect (a luxury we rarely have in reality).
I can see the problem with forecasted winds being about half what they actually are. Bring LOTS of extra fuel on those long hauls!
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - psolk - 12-09-2005
LOTS of extra fuel
I am going to do the return today, setting up the PC now. I love working from home
I set it up and it flies all day while I work.. I am sittinghere anyway. so why not let it go.
I should be able to load the same fuel amount on the return and it should be accurate. The funny thing is I looked at all the numbers, and thought it
was too low before taking off, I added 40000 pounds as a precaution and then saw my crz alt was going to sit at 290 because of my load. I figured
40000 additional was too much so I offloaded about 15k. FMC told me I would have 40.5 when I landed. I ended up with 14 so if I kept that additional
15k at the beginning I would not have been penalized.
Lesson learned. It is better to have too much fuel than to little
-Paul
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - SWAFO - 12-09-2005
Of course it is!
Glad you learned that lesson! It's better late than never!
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - bdlong - 14-09-2005
Pay attention to your winds during your climb. I make a note at each 1000 foot increment regarding the direction and speed. Over a long flight, both
may change, but most of my flights are under 3 hours. If I reach my cruise altitude, and there is a big difference from a lower altitude, I'll
descend to my favor.
Another thing to keep in mind, winds are USUALLY against you when flying west, so plan on flying at a lower altitude. When I was taking lessons my
instructor explained that he was taking a 1200 mile trip west to Denver in a Citation II. They would fly out at less then FL250, and probably have to
make one fuel stop. On the return trip they would take it up to the aircrafts ceiling limit and make it without refuelling.
Add in extra time when flying west and lower your airspeed.
Dean
Re: DOH!!! Minor detail I need Fuel - SWAFO - 14-09-2005
Naturally, the winds will usually flow West-East. This isn't always the case though, so never assume that if you're heading East you'll
have a tailwind. Like I mentioned previously, when calculating fuel always plan for at least a 100KT headwind. This way you shouldn't
have any problems if you accidentally encounter a very strong headwind. If headwinds are expected to be greater than 100KTS, I'll always
take along the required IMC alternate fuel. Usually a few extra thousand pounds.