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+--- Thread: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! (/showthread.php?tid=3248)
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - DanSteph - 27-11-2008
Quote:that you made us hope for the release in summer to early
Yes that was a big mistake but I made it sincerely
I real tought it would be okay at this time.Even I added a big margin time based on my experience.
The first time I took contact with a publisher in may 2004 about FsPassengers I said to him
it will be ready in "august 2004"... was finally out july 2005.... one years later
Technically all "special things" that have taken so long in FsP2004 (not available in SDK) had to
be redone three time in "X", one for every patch. I thought vista would be a piece of cake but in fact it's
under documented and I released several beta that had one or another problem requiring that I
rewrite almoste completely the installer. (I have to bought and install vista also)
I thought I could use the new SDK (simmconnect) until I finally saw that it was so "fragile"
and not usable for FsP that I had to get ride of it and so rewrite again several stuff.
About forgiveness, no problems, that's not the first time someone is not happy and not the last.
I just used my right or response and preffer to explain than to delete the posts I don't like....
For my customers, for FsP fan, for my familly (that live a hell since month) I can only say again:
Sorry, sincerely sorry about the delay !
But NOT about the price
Dan
Post Edited ( 11-27-08 18:11 )
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - DonRioja - 27-11-2008
Dear Dan,
comparing with most of the others here im rather a "newbie", starting with fs2000, buying fs9 in early 2007 and fsp in oktober 2007.
But, within i came to hundreds of flights and never had any bug origin from your program (and i had many of them relating to fs9).
When i bought fsx (early this year) i still got a lot of work with updating and so on just to bring one single flight to an end, even with very
new equipment (quadcore, gforce 9600, 3 GB RAM...).
In short words, my point of view: If theres a team (of i dont know how many guys) having more time to make a program NOT working, what
a hero must this guy be writing such a wonderful program COMPLETELY WORKING and BUGFREE...
So, if it would take you till april 09, i could wait even 4 months more, if not, im glad at all.
And, if it would be necessary, id also pay your loss of nils´ copy, if he decides not to buy it, just an offer
Keep up good work!
Sincerly
Lukas
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - dannye92 - 27-11-2008
Quote:forzaksc1894 wrote:
What´s the appreciation for a penalty for time acceleration? It´s impossible to fly a long haul like Frankfurt to Hong Kong in real time.. that
would
take 13 hours... and with cockpit preparation etc. it would take 14-15 hours
(sorry for bloody english, I hope you understand
theres a few of us tomorrow doing YSSY-KSFO-EIDW
22 hours if ya wanna join lol 2200z YSSY
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - JavierH - 27-11-2008
I agree, some comments are quite unfair and the price is not the issue.
But maybe it would help to calm the anxiety to release an early demo or a time-limited release candidate.
After all, we are less than a month to the planned release date, the program will be almost polished and any further delay would be less frustrating.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Javier
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - pagir - 27-11-2008
I'm currently beta testing FsXP... since... well... some months...
Yes, it takes more time than Dan planned. But the main problems were coming from Microsoft: the new simconnect features, the 3 fsx
cores (sp1, sp2, accel) and the 2 main OS (Vista and XP) created many problems. Nobody can imagine how hard Dan worked to make
FsP word with all those versions ! At some moments, it was hell...
This said, I tried to figure the "real value" of FspX.
Let's start with the normal FsP2004 price: 31.90
With the "X" version, you now can "see" the failures, and the AA is also visible. Nobody even tried that in another addon. You can even belly
landing or ditch your plane in water (FsX don't allow this...) It worth at least 20 euros if it was a separate addon
With this new version, you'll be able to makes not only tours, but also aerobatics tour. And you'll be noted for the G's you give to your
passengers. Nobody have ever done that before. It worth at least 15 euros !
And I didn't talked about the fact you can fly in Europe in 1944, at D-1 with special war zone settings, brand new failures, better payload
manager, brand new mini report (100% compatible), FsPX keeps the track of your planes... Those ameliorated features justify more than
5 euros!!!
So, you'll get a 70 euros + value for half the price!!!
(wow... this sound like an tv ad
)Anyway, it will rocks the FsX world!!!
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - nils - 27-11-2008
First of all, If money had been my biggest concern, I would have posted it somewhere else at a different topic. I also wrote that sentence
should probably be in the stealing software thread and not here. Money is a issue, but far so much it is worth that much concern from my
part. MY major concern is I cant buy anything not put out for sale yet.
So let me make a few things clear straight away.
1. Dan, Your thoughts about not deleting post based on not liking - is good
2. Dan, You closing topics getting on more than ten pages, is great and makes the forum easier to read.
3. Dan, You putting a lot of work into your software and wanting it to be perfect, is great and benefits us, the users, a lot.
4. Dan, everyone makes mistakes, that's what makes us human.
5. Dan, I would not be angry if you proves my prediction for the release wrong.
6. Dan, Merry Christmas and happy new year (days will go real fast now and Christmas is shortly here)
7. Money - yes it is a issue. Too much? I don't know. Dan you are correct - FSP is not the most expensive out in the jungle of FS add on. Is
it worth it? I don't know by my self yet, according to others, it probably is.
It seems that I am getting evaluated from how many posts I have made in this forum. It is possible to read and follow the forum without
posting a single thread here, thank you Thommy78, witch proves my point exactly for that matter.
The main reason for me to post my concerns and anger for the delayed release is based upon the fact there is no one bringing these
concerns up on the table here, my bet is the most who probably would, didn't bother and went away never to return again. However that
doesn't mean there is not a lot of anger or disappointments out there caused of this "super software" not being available for the latest
Microsoft Flight Simulator.
I am not as lucky (if you may call it so) to be in possession of FS9, and therefor knows nothing about FSP from own experiences. All I have
is what i read and what i sees from the pictures. There has been a lot of talking about how great it is, I cant deny it is - but that is also why
I wonder why it is not finished yet. I am sure there is ways to do it so that it would be released close to a new FS version upgrade, this is
what other software has to deal with for new version upgrades also. All software faces the same dilemma every year, some manages to
deal easily with the upgrade, some does not. However it would seem weird if some applications didn't manage to get a vista release
before vista is getting renewed with Windows 7 - needles to say, the marked for that sofware whould be gone long before it got released.
Not many programs is getting developed for FS 2004 anymore (and don't say your getting surprised for me saying so?)
Releasing a buggy and bad software is of course not what anyone wants, but it should be possible to release it with just a few of the fully
working functions, and then release a newer version as soon as the other buggy functions where fixed. That's why the most software has
free upgrades of the same release version. I am not a developer and I know nothing about the work flow of FSP, from idea to the state it is
today (not counting whats already released before) So i cant say anything have been done wrongly or not, but here is my thought of
concerns for a future release of FSP.
As the picture shows above, the new version includes smokey engines and failures in case you get shot down in war areas. That's
probably great, but I am not planing to fly a lot of passengers into a war zone in the nearest future so that experience is maybe something
i could have waited a few month before getting into the software. Passengers is a must. At current flights i have no passengers (no visual,
no audio)so basically give me the main passengers and then the rest as soon as it is finished. I am happy to have one plane to fly with, I
don't need the entire fleet before getting into the cockpit.
It may not be nice reading for what i writes, but keep in mind, I did write these things. This is actually a lot more helpful, than if i had done
what i wanted to do in the first place - forget about the FSP since it is not my problem, not my concerns and therefor not even worth worry
about.
I guess the site statisticks whould prove me correct for not beeing the only one thinking so.
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - jonathan3141 - 27-11-2008
To my mind nils you have valid points, but they are more appropriately directed to Dan's business model. He runs the risk of someone getting in first
and grabbing "his" customers by producing something similar.
If Toyota don't bring out a better car, I don't get angry with Toyota, I just buy an alternative make. There is no alternative to FSPassengers, but
that's not Dan's fault, and the fact that this might change is really to the risk of Dan's livelihood.
It's entirely Dan's decision as to what's acceptable to release - it's his brand. And as he says, probably not the most money spinning way of working,
but that's up to him.
Of course if really your his wife and just sick of waiting til you can buy some more food, then I fully understand!
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - DanSteph - 27-11-2008
Well,
I always love to discuss but I'm not sure making new post on this will help the release date
so I'll try to make short.Quote:The main reason for me to post my concerns and anger for the delayed release is based upon the fact there is no one bringing these concerns up on the table here
If you search on the old thread you will find peoples ranting about this. And again you have perfectly reason (appart maybe the tone a bit too agressive?) I can only tell again that I'm sorry. As said before making software is not as carrying sand bag wich is time predictible, it's more like an "artist work". Even more when you explore things that none before have done. I disagreed completely on the price issue anyway.
Quote:but it should be possible to release it with just a few of the fully working functions
I have a long experience of freeware http://orbiter.dansteph.com and what is possible with freeware (releasing half done stuff just for
peoples to try) is absolutely not possible for payware. (I also do not relase half done freeware in anyway, in this case it's a choice
Anyway the code due to the 3 patch and two OS is now so sensitive and there is so much configuration and case possible with different
aircrafts that I'll probably make a cheap "early release" only announced here and only for 40-100 first customers... It will probably be only
25 euro but those customers will be warned this is the first release that they may encounter problems and should give feedback in this
case. If there is no "criticals" bugs it will be then the official release.
But it will be in anyway done on what I consider a finished product, all doc and help done, all features working and no criticals bug found by beta team.
I'll also do as usual a first patch probably one month after the release with all submited problems, what microsoft is unable to do (a bug
free program) with million dollars and complete team of specialist is also not possible by a guy alone. A bug may happen only once every
100 config or flights.
Well, sorry for the rest of your post but I have a lot of work
Dan
Post Edited ( 11-27-08 23:33 )
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - KenG - 28-11-2008
Quote:DanSteph wrote:Still will be 31.90 euro (45.70$?) FsP is the only cost that don't raise lately... I think I would need a financial
advisor, I'm good for programing but zero at doing money.
Quote:DanSteph wrote:
the price is now 36.90 euro (fixes as I made the help text) and you may have also a rebate if you bought the previous version by
simmarket, I don't think the price is excessive or due to my situation in anyway. (since 2005 it's about the same value price, maybe even
cheaper if you pay in US$ now)
So a 5 Euro increase when just a few months ago you stated that FSP will remain 31.90.
If we didn't purchase through Simmarket we are now screwed when it comes to a rebate?
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - SkyAirWorld - 28-11-2008
Quote:KenG wrote:
If we didn't purchase through Simmarket we are now screwed when it comes to a rebate?
KenG,
Unless you have a "problems at home" or problems with money... or just got screwed where you are, you as a
Pilot and an Instructor have
no place (nor do I) to bitch about a 5 Euro increase... thats what 10 Australian dollers? so roughly 7-8 US Dollers?
(that could be way off
and probably is)
Wow... 5 Euros more...
Not that much for the hours of entertainment you will almost 100% certianlly get from it...
(Dan perhaps locking this FSP blog thread and archiving it with the rest once everyones "happy" and had their 2
cents worth?)
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - Joss - 28-11-2008
You guys are just a big pain in the butt!
Nils, no matter how deeply you feel you have points to make the truth is everything you said so far is just too
obvious to even wasting time to post it. Just grow up and get over it: FsPX will be ready in proper time, no sooner
nor later. It will be ready whem Dan finishes his work. And that'sit!
Software developed by a single programmer fully dependent on his own resources has these kinds of limitations.
Learn it and get on with it.
If you think you have the right to complain just because you have money to buy it then you are totally wrong. Money
can't buy everything and since you are so narrow-minded I'll have to explain it.
None of you ever wondered why there is no major software company developing addons like this? Because it
takes too much time, too much effort, too much ingenuity and talent to make software like this for a price this
competetitive and yet make any money out of it.
Only a guy who is genius putting code toghether, crazy about sim-flights, working for himself so he has no fixed
explotation expenses, willing to invest many months of his life and willing to risk his family's future.. Could make
something like FsP.
Why 36.90? I'll tell you why! So everyone can afford it.. How about that? We all paid a lot more for a copy of FSX and
yet nobody complained to Mr Bill Gates about the price because we all knew the answer: Either you take it as it is
or you dont, they just dont care. Most of us spended several times that amount in our video card so we could enjoy
better FSX! C'mon guys!
You are mistaking Dan's accessibilty. As the nice person he is he's open to talk to anybody and will answer to any
of us withing his knowledge and his posibilities. You are using that as a way to press him and push him in ways
you would not even dare to suggest to Mr Bill Gates. Dont loose your respect for Dan just because he is the
average guy who you could have as a neighbour.
We OWN so much to Dan.. Much more than 36.90 euros a copy. We own him respect and admiration for he has
given us an addon we all have dreamed of since the very fist version of MSFS back in the early 80's. Yes, I was one
of those and yes I've had every release since then.
Many people have had some experience with MSFS and most of them get tired at some point and leave it aside.
FsP has made the miracle of bringing lots of people back to MSFS to enjoy it in ways never seen before.
5 euro increase? I'd pay Dan a 20 euro increase if he asked for it!! And I know 95% of people would do the same
because there is just nothing like FsP.
Now.. Be smart and do not start an argument about this. Do not waste anymore of Dan's time and energy. He
shouldn't be explaining things like he is now. We all want FsP soon so lets give Dan our suppport and as much
feedback as we can. Let's learn how we can be of help and let's follow Dan's example being creative and using
our mind for something more constructive than complaining about minor issues.
If you think you can do it better be my guest and give it a try. If you dont be patient and supportive and leave Dan
finish his work
Think about it!
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - DanSteph - 28-11-2008
I think Joss get the point.
Even if you disagree with him there is one good reason to not arguing endlessly here on the same subjects above...beetween yesterday
and today I wasted almost 6 hours in communication here on the same sujbect. That's 6 hours less to work for FsPX....
36.90 is a fair and cheap price in the current market for FsPX, release will be in time... discussion closed, okay ?
Thanks for reading... and peace on earth
Dan
Post Edited ( 11-28-08 07:49 )
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - Leftcoaster - 28-11-2008
FsP has given my a great many hours of enjoyment but I will not be buying FsPX, only because I have no intention of leaving FS9 for FSX;
period. Have followed the development of FsPX with great interest and think that it will be an outstanding addon, if its features were
compatable with FS9 I would certainly be in the lineup (but quietly and without nagging) to purchase it.
Pro-rating the cost in CAD over the probable life of the program make it a pretty good deal in my opinion.
Best of Luck to Dan Stelph and the FsPX team, I hope that it's a great success.
Cheers
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - CPC900 - 28-11-2008
You know, before I became a beta tester for FSPX, I was wonderring how long FSPX would take to come out. That was because I loved FSP for FS9 and
missed not having it in FSX. The funny thing was....I don't recall thinking about how much it would cost. I knew I would get it regardless, because
of it value as a good add on to flightsim.
After joining the beta team and seeing the unbelievable effort Dan puts into this and the constant improvements he adds, all I can say is wow. If he
told me tomorrow it will take another 6 months and cost double the price, I would be more than fine with that. If everyone had the chance to see
this, then there would not be a complaint to be heard, I am sure.
Keep in mind, there have been a lack of quality FSX add ons put out so far. I can only imagine that other companies are also dealing with the same
challenges with XP/Vista and FSX SP1/SP2/Acceleration.
One thing is for sure......when this is released and you see what it has to offer, you will be happy. So for those of you who want an XMas gift, add
it to your list.
Re: FsPassengers for FSX official note and Blog ! - rojasjorge98 - 28-11-2008
I agree that 36.90 EUR is a fair price. If you look at other products u will see a big difference in $$$$.
USD: $46.07